How Did Watchtower Sell the "Jonadab" Concept ?

by Sea Breeze 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345
    @Vanderhoven7

    The Catholic Church has never offered anyone a route to heaven that “bypasses” the Cross or excuses him from the obedience of faith; she simply distinguishes between a culpable refusal of revealed truth and the misfortune of never having heard that truth in an intelligible way. When Saint John says that “he who believes not the Son shall not see life” he is speaking, as the context of both Jn 3 and 1 Jn 5 makes plain, about those to whom the Son has actually been proposed and who therefore stand before the drama of acceptance or rejection. Thomas, commenting on the same verses, adds that unbelief becomes mortal when it is “pertinacious”—that is, when it resists the truth once known to be such. The soldier on Hadrian’s Wall and the Bedouin child are not, before any act of their own, in that situation.

    Yet neither are they saved by a second, “natural” covenant. If they are saved it is solely because the one sacrifice of Calvary and the one bridal gift of the Church are made present to them by an anticipatory grace that elicits an implicit, seminal act of the very faith you name: faith in a God who is Father, in a mercy that forgives sin, and in a life that conquers death. The Holy Spirit can plant that seed because, as Pius XII teaches in Mystici Corporis, Christ’s merits overflow the visible enclosure of the sacramental economy and can touch those who “by an unconscious desire” are already ordered to the Church. At the instant that seed is accepted it ceases to be merely implicit, for grace is not a vague benevolence but a supernatural light; it contains within itself, virtually, the whole Creed. Should life last, Providence ordinarily leads such a soul toward the explicit confession of Jesus as Lord; should death intervene, Christ, who “enlightens every man” (Jn 1:9), can unveil Himself in the final moment so that the obedience of faith may be perfected or, if spurned, finally judged.

    This is no modern novelty. Saint Justin could call the righteous pagan “a Christian unawares”; Saint Thomas could say that a man who follows the light given him “would receive further illumination, even by an angel, sooner than God would fail in what is necessary for salvation”; Pius IX and the Fathers of Vatican II repeat the same doctrine. None of them weaken the necessity of Christ or His Church; they simply refuse to bind the Almighty to the accidents of geography or history when He wishes “all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” That refusal is not sophistry; it is theologia crucis, for it confesses that the Blood outpoured on Golgotha is puissant enough to reach even those whose tongues have never formed the sacred Name, provided they do not wilfully shut their hearts against the invitation written on creation and conscience.

    Therefore the Church evangelises with urgency—for explicit faith, baptism, and full communion are the ordinary road—and yet she dares to hope for the unevangelised, not because she trusts fallen nature, but because she trusts the pierced Heart of her Spouse.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    @SB

    Imagine 8 million JWs do not require Christ's blood for the forgiveness of sin, nor Christ's righteousness imputed to them.

    "It follows that all whose destiny is the earth, the foregoing ones mentioned, would have no need of having righteousness imputed to them.

    After such ones achieve actual perfection at the end of the Millennium and then pass a final test, they will be in a position to be declared righteous for everlasting human life.” WT Dec 15, 1985 p.30

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    Imagine 8 million JWs do not require Christ's blood for the forgiveness of sin, nor Christ's righteousness imputed to them.

    I know, it is sick. But it is much worse than than you describe. 20 million people formally reject the new covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" (Mt. 26: 27-28) each year at the twisted JW version of the "Lord's Supper".

    Add to that all the JW kids that are abandoned to the streets (like I was at 14) , the disfellowshipped, the millions of infected bible students who studied long enough to reject the need for a Savior, and you have a global Satanic impact of perhaps of 100 million people alive today who are inoculated against receiving the new covenant.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    @Aqwsed

    Do you believe the Catholic Church's plan of salvation includes Protestant Trinitarians who reject

    a.the authority of the Catholic Church and it's Magisterium

    b. Apostolic succession

    c. Transubstantiation

    c. the Sacrament of Confession

    d. Veneration of and prayer to Mary

    e. Immaculate Conception of Mary

    f. the sinlessness of Mary

    g. the perpetual virginity of Mary

    h. the Assumption of Mary

    i. Veneration of and prayer to Saints

    j. Purgatory

    Or are Protestants not really saved or sanctified as true Christians according to the Church's understanding?

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    Seabreeze, you do not accept the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, though they have been proven as true;

    Rattigan,

    What possible reason could you provide as "proof" that rejecting the new covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" is a logical coherent thing to choose?

    There are no new testament scriptures that show how a person could get their sins forgiven otherwise.

    Has your brain turned to mush or what? Show me bubbah.

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    I am curious how anyone that was once a JW could fall wholeheartedly for another belief system that is every bit as questionable as the first one.

    After any time spent as a JW, you should be able smell bullshit propaganda and mind control a mile away.

    Its like swallowing the blue pill all over again.

  • blondie
    blondie

    joey jojo, I see plenty of people on here that are ex-jws, but still maintain a Christian belief system and find a group that matches the things they feel are important. So I don't judge other people's choices.

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345
    @Vanderhoven7

    No one is incorporated into Christ by a doctrinal checklist; the decisive question is whether the soul dies in sanctifying grace, which can be possessed only through union—at least implicit—with the visible Church that is Christ’s Mystical Body. When a Protestant is validly baptized in the Trinitarian formula, the indelible character of that sacrament grafts him onto the Church in re, not merely in voto. From that moment every supernatural act of faith, hope, and charity he makes is nourished by juices that rise through Catholic roots, because the one saving economy established by God admits of no rival streams of grace. The Council of Trent therefore acknowledged the validity of baptism conferred even by heretics, and Vatican II, echoing Pius XII, speaks of “many elements of sanctification and truth” that subsist in the ecclesial communities separated from Rome; through these the Holy Spirit “impels towards Catholic unity.”

    Yet the same Fathers also insisted that these communities suffer grave wounds: the absence of sacramental priesthood and Eucharist, the eclipse of Marian dogma, the loss of the ordinary means of reconciliation, a diminished sense of the communion of saints. These privations are not neutral; they are objective defects in the substance of revealed religion and, if knowingly embraced, constitute formal heresy or schism, which severs supernatural life. The distinction is crucial. Most Protestants are heirs, not architects, of separation; they reject our claims not out of contumacy but from inherited convictions and cultural formation. In Thomistic terms they are “material” rather than “formal” dissenters; whatever error clings to their intellect is often accompanied by an upright will sincerely seeking God. Where invincible ignorance excuses, grace can heal: the theological virtues elicited by baptism dispose them, at the hour of death, to the further light by which Christ may manifest the full deposit of faith and invite explicit assent. Should they accept, they die within the Church, though history had kept them outside her canonical boundaries.

    This mercy, however, is no charter for complacency. Because God has willed that the ordinary means of perseverance are the sacraments and doctrine entrusted to Peter, a Protestant knowingly refusing those remedies, or a Catholic abandoning them, imperils salvation. Likewise the Catholic may not adopt a false irenicism as though Marian dogmas or the sacrifice of the Mass were expendable ornaments. They are part of the “whole Christ,” without whom the seed of baptism struggles to reach full stature. Hence the Church both acknowledges what is already Catholic in our separated brethren—real though incomplete communion—and at the same time pleads for their return, knowing that the plenitude of truth and the ordinary assurance of final perseverance are found only where Peter’s faith cannot fail.

    We readily admit that it often costs a person considerable effort to discover the essential difference between false or erroneous religions and the true one. Upbringing, environment, and prejudices absorbed without critical reflection can make orientation very difficult. Yet it is objectively impossible that God should have rendered the true religion so unrecognizable, giving it no marks by which it can be known and distinguished from error. In fact, whoever pursues the matter seriously and studies the Catholic religion and the other religions without bias will, with almost infallible certainty, arrive at the recognition of the one true Church.

    The mere fact that we worship one God does not mean it is irrelevant how we worship Him or what we regard as His revelation and command. Jews and Muslims, too, worship the one God, yet it surely makes a difference whether one is a Jew, a Muslim, or a Christian. Likewise, it is not indifferent whether, as a Christian, I serve and adore God within the framework of the Catholic religion—which possesses the fullness of faith and rests on the divine will—or within systems that in greater or lesser matters conflict with God’s ordinances.

    At the same time, we do not claim that everyone outside the Catholic Church is automatically lost and only Catholics can be saved. One question is whether a religion is in itself true and exclusively correct; quite another is whether individuals who are objectively in error may nonetheless be free of personal fault and therefore not morally culpable for their mistake. A person who clings to an erroneous religion not out of negligence, contempt, or obstinacy, but because he is the victim of honest misjudgment, commits no sin on that account and need not be damned for it. Nevertheless, it is everyone’s most sacred duty to seek the truth, God’s revelation and will—hence the true religion—according to the best of one’s ability, and, once found, to embrace it in spite of every obstacle. If someone remains in error through no fault of his own, he does not sin; but if he recognizes the truth and refuses to follow it, he commits a grave sin and may be lost because of it.

    We acknowledge that other denominations, too, have devout and God-fearing members, and even martyrs; for it is one thing to ask whether the creed they profess is true and legitimate, and quite another to judge how fully they, as individuals, conform in conscience to the law they recognize as right. Subjectively, even a pagan can be God-fearing, noble, heroic, even martyr-spirited; that does not follow that pagan doctrines are therefore true. Moreover, Christians who stand in error do not err in every article, but only in certain teachings. In most of the fundamental questions the Eastern Orthodox hold the full truth: the existence of God, the Trinity, the Incarnation and Redemption, judgment and eternal life, the necessary co-operation of grace and free will, the sacraments. The Eastern Orthodox go to confession, receive Communion and confirmation as we do; they honor the Blessed Virgin, celebrate a valid Mass, possess validly ordained bishops and priests, and so on. Even broken fragments of the true religion radiate such vital power that, under their influence, many upright and well-intentioned souls among its adherents bring forth heroic manifestations of holiness and piety. Likewise, among Protestants there lives much of the ancient Catholic truth and much heartfelt devotion; many deeds pleasing to God are done. Yet all this does not cancel the fact that their doctrines are erroneous in certain essential matters—above all in denying ecclesial unity.

    Is it therefore possible that someone who follows an erroneous faith may nevertheless be saved, even become a saint and a martyr? Yes, it is possible. We must suppose that even among non-Christians many obtain grace if in spirit they have sought the path of truth and have remained within some non-Christian religion only through inculpable error. The working of grace embraces a wider circle than the Church’s visible boundaries. By Christ’s appointment the Church is the ordinary guardian for obtaining and increasing divine grace and holds its special and abundant means; but this does not mean that the stream of grace never trickles beyond her banks. The two theses are not mutually exclusive: that the Catholic Church is Christ’s true Church, and yet that in extraordinary ways those outside her visible fold can be saved—through that very Church to which they belonged, albeit unconsciously, in spirit.

    You might ask whether it then makes no difference to which denomination one belongs. That conclusion would be false. It matters greatly. If a person recognizes the true Church and yet refuses to follow her, he commits a grave sin against the Holy Spirit and, unless he repents and repairs it, cannot be saved at all. Membership of the Church is Christ’s most stringent command and an objective condition for salvation. “If he refuses to hear the Church,” says Jesus (Mt 18:17), “let him be to you as a heathen and a tax-collector.” This means: whoever, in spite of the lawful preaching of the Church’s ministers, does not believe will be condemned (Mk 16:16). Non-membership is guiltless only when it results from invincible and honest error—that is, when someone neither knows nor suspects that he ought to join the Catholic Church. This is the sense of the ancient Christian expression “no salvation outside the Church.”

    Many say the notion of “the one saving Church” is extreme intolerance; yet, as shown, it is not. Were this principle intolerant, then Christ Himself would have committed the first and greatest intolerance when He declared that whoever will not receive the teaching of His disciples and believe it “will be condemned.” There, on Christ’s own lips, is the first formulation of the one saving Church. Is it intolerant if we say, “we have only one homeland”? If a country can be but one, why should not the Lord Jesus’ realm, the Church, be even more indivisibly one?

    Our Lord instituted only one lawful and unified Church; therefore every “church” or denomination that stands opposed to this one lawful Church and separates itself from her is in error and illegitimate. This is not lack of tolerance, but consistency and fidelity to Christ’s ordinance. Of course, tolerance remains a Christian virtue, and the Catholic Church is tolerant. Yet tolerance is of two kinds. There is doctrinal or theoretical “tolerance,” which, for the sake of peace, would sacrifice divine revelation itself: that the Church rejects. And there is civil or practical tolerance, which seeks to live in peace and charity with neighbors who are in error, without approving their error or placing it on a level with the truth. The Catholic Church knows no doctrinal tolerance—she would see that as treason against Christ—but she does practice civil tolerance, often to a degree surpassing others.

    You may ask whether, then, every Protestant must be considered a wrong-doer because he still clings to Luther’s and Calvin’s doctrines. If someone, knowing all this, willfully clings to ecclesiastical rebellion, he indeed cannot be acquitted of grave guilt and complicity in sin. Most present-day Protestants, however, do not know these facts and perhaps cannot easily understand them, because from childhood they have been taught and made to believe that Luther’s and Calvin’s revolt was not only lawful but divinely ordained. The chief strength of Protestantism lies in its skillful and unceasing propaganda, by which it continually re-inculcates its ideas into its adherents; only a few realize that the whole mental framework in which they were trained is erroneous. Yet whoever does realize it generally draws nearer to the Catholic Church; in countries like in the UK or in the USA tens of thousands return every year, including ministers. Religious division today is maintained chiefly by ignorance on one side and passion on the other, not by calm consideration, solid reasoning, or sound evidence.

    So, the answer is twofold. Protestant Trinitarians who, through no grave fault of their own, remain outside visible unity can indeed be saved, but never by a salvation proper to Protestantism. If they reach heaven, it is because the merits of Christ and the mediation of His Catholic Church have secretly nourished them and, in their last conscious moment, found no obstinate resistance. Those who would knowingly repudiate the Church once they have recognized her as the divine ark place themselves under the condemnation Saint John describes. Charity therefore obliges Catholics to evangelize, and prudence forbids us to narrow God’s mercy into channels of our own devising while it equally forbids us to widen the gate by denying the objective claims of the one fold and one Shepherd.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    I am curious how anyone that was once a JW could fall wholeheartedly for another belief system that is every bit as questionable as the first one.

    JoeyJoJo,

    A man walked out of a tomb, and predicted before he died that he would raise himself from the dead. Then he did it. Nothing has been the same since. He said that if you trust him, you will walk out of your own tomb. It's that simple. Very easy to understand even if you don't believe it.

    If you can present anything that can compare to that, let's hear it. Whatcha got?


  • Touchofgrey
    Touchofgrey

    Sea breeze

    Extra ordinary claims demand extra ordinary evidence.

    The empty tomb myth has been debunked many times on this forum because of a lack of verified evidence and yet you continue to make the same unfounded claims.

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