I have a question for you

LuckyNun

here's the situation. I know a girl who's a Jehovah's Witness in Olathe, KS. she's 21, going to college, and involved in the local music scene. now, let's travel back in time to March of 2002. she meets this guy online, in a local music forum. they meet up at local music shows (mainly in venues which for all intents and purposes are bars) and form a friendship. by April, she's posted this: http://www.livejournal.com/users/redsk8r/73358.html

she tries to get "skajester" to go to a few meetings, and gives him a bunch of books. by May, they're a couple as far as anyone else in their social circle is concerned. no hanky-panky activity goes on, but "I love you"s have been exchanged. they've even picked out baby names for future children. I meet "skajester" and "redsk8r" in July. I have no idea she's an active, baptized JW. she never posts about it at all, choosing instead to post IM conversations with worldly friends and concert reviews and working as a street team member and booking agent for local bands. then one day I post about how my last act of defiance while living with my parents was to order the nicest bible available (maroon leather-bound, gold-leaf pages deluxe edition of the NWT) and put absolutely no money in the contribution box. she makes a post about how she's a JW (and finds my post somewhat offensive), and it just blows my mind. right about this time, I'm becoming friends with "skajester", who's deciding he really would rather not convert to being a JW. I hadn't pursued anything with him because I thought he was dating "redsk8r". so to hear she's a JW is GREAT NEWS! because that means they are not an item, right? because no active JW would date a worldly guy, right? I must have gotten the wrong idea somehow, they can't be more than friends! so I go ahead and pursue a relationship with "skajester". he makes the decision to "break up" or whatever you want to call it, since she's made it clear they can't "date" until he's a baptized Witness. we start dating that same week. when she comes back from the district convention and a two week vacation with her parents, his break-up latter is waiting for her, and she goes ballistic. I cal her on it, basically asking what a "good" JW like her is doing hanging out with worldly people at music shows held in bars and pursuing relationships with worldly guys. I even tell her the reason I never stayed in the religion (god, almost typed "truth") was because I wanted to lead the life she was leading. she immediately takes everyone who agrees with me off of her friends list and makes people choose between her and me. it gets very ugly, but we eventually agree to disagree. I even tell her I hope she finds a great JW guy who will appreciate her love of music and not hold her back. months pass, and I'm telling my parents about it. they live in IL and sound very interested, as the Society apparently has a ban on the Internet, yet here's this girl who not only maintains several websites for herself and her worldly bands, she frequents online forums and basically hangs out with worldly people online, including several who list Satanism as an interest (ironic statement or not, that's a no-no for JWs). they talk to the elders and report back to me that I'm to call the elders in the Olathe congregation, so I do. they must have spoken with her, because she makes a big post about it, but apparently, she's not in any trouble.

it's not like I had any special vendetta against her, I was thinking more like, "get off the fence, either you want to be a JW or you don't". I figured either way, I was helping her. either she'd realize what she was doing and stop, or she'd realize how much she didn't want to be a JW and be free to do the things she wanted. well, she must have special friends in high places. nothing was done, and she continues where she left off. lucky girl. I had to leave the JWs to pursue a higher education and go to concerts and find fun, worldly boys to date. the only good thing to come of this was finding a wonderful boyfriend in "skajester". we've been together for 15 months now.

just when I think I've left the JWs behind, I have to fight with one for a boyfriend! will wonders never cease?

so, my question: is this the norm now? I would have been disfellowshipped, or at least severely reproved for such behavior. have the JWs let up on kids these days?

jgnat

have the JWs let up on kids these days?

Nope.

...but next time, leave the finking to the JW's. The girl is a hypocrite but she deserves to come out of the closet at her own pace. Forcing her out of the organization will not take the JW out of her soul.

ApagaLaLuz

She sounds a lot like me..... my advise..... leave her alone and she will come around in her own due time. JW 21 yr olds are much younger than the rest of the world's 21 yr olds. She obviously is already being influenced by "the world." I figure she'll come around eventually. I was similiar. I tried to witness to my "worldly" boyfriend. He ended up changing my mind instead of the other way around.

LuckyNun

I give her five years, tops. I dislike the hypocrisy immensely, but she has good taste in music. I hope she comes around.

lastcall

...but next time, leave the finking to the JW's. The girl is a hypocrite but she deserves to come out of the closet at her own pace. Forcing her out of the organization will not take the JW out of her soul.

Agreed. She sounds conflicted which is how almost everyone is for varying lengths of time before they find the courage to leave. After that , there is still more time often before they figure out the best way.

I understand your reasoning about kind of making her make a choice, but when you went to the elders it's kind of like recognizing there authority yourself, which for me would be unthinkable .

I would not judge you, but from what you have written, I think if you examined yourself deeply-- ulterior motives may have had a little to do with you talking to elders.

she immediately takes everyone who agrees with me off of her friends list and makes people choose between her and me. it gets very ugly,

Did perhaps the ugly part come into play?

she must have special friends in high places. nothing was done, and she continues where she left off. lucky girl. I had to leave the JWs to pursue a higher education and go to concerts and find fun, worldly boys to date. the only good thing to come of this was finding a wonderful boyfriend in "skajester". we've been together for 15 months now.

Maybe she lied-- or maybe like you said in your post...

--no hanky-panky activity goes on, but "I love you"s have been exchanged

They wouldn't probably do anything public over that.

As far as the worldly friends and online stuff-- that could all be spun very easily.

Anyway, good luck with your skajester -- best wishes.

That's my 2 cents.

LC

Euphemism

First her boyfriend breaks up with her while she's away on vacation, and then you tell the elders on her? Doesn't sound very nice to me.

I'm glad that you and skajester are happy, however... he deserves to have a real girlfriend, not a conflicted dub who's not supposed to be dating him. And I hope that redsk8r sees the truth about the truth one of these days.

gumby

Hi Luckynun.....and welcome.

I'm trying to figure out why you listened to your parents advise if you aren't living like a dub nor agree with them. Why did you call the elders on her? If you were mad at her and that was a way to nail her I can understand......but you said you had nothing against her.

As for her not getting in trouble.........if she denies the accusation to the elders, and if there are no witnesses to those accusations........then they drop the matter.

Forcing her out of the organization will not take the JW out of her soul

Sometimes it does. It did for me. Once I was disfellowshipped and felt the pain of shunning.....I began to feel the wrongness of it, and that's when I began re-searching things. I have known others who's disfellowshipping has aided them out for good. I do know what you are saying however........some can't wait to get back in.....but this girl sounds out there a bit for a dub.

Gumby

LuckyNun

I admit, on the whole I had nothing against her, but the idea of her getting away with stuff I wasn't allowed to get away with really bothered me, and that's ultimately why I went ahead and narced on her. when I was growing up there were so many kids around me leading double lives. I was the pariah of the congregation because I wouldn't get baptized, and people ran to the elders and my parents if they so much as saw me walking home from school behind a group of worldly kids without actively trying to witness to them. you think I'm exaggerating. I'm not. these double-lifers were always held up as shining examples of what I could be if I only tried, and no one ever believed me about what I saw them do at school. I guess I was trying to see long-overdue justice be served.

I should add an epilogue: after all that drama, you know what her excuse was? she was on misprescribed medication. you see, she has fibromyalgia and narcolepsy, and she was prescribed anti-depressants originally. she now claims to remember nothing of the year 2002. we sat down and talked this summer, she came over to my house and we had a four-hour conversation. very interesting, but I was still just kinda rolling my eyes when she left. I think she's in big denial. now that I think about it, she probably counted it as field service time.

kgfreeperson

Interesting story. Kind of reminds me of the Williams sisters, or Prince, or . . . any of the public figures who have become or who have been raised witnesses who don't seem to follow any of the witness rules. I do find myself wondering, however, about "but the idea of her getting away with stuff I wasn't allowed to get away with really bothered me." Would you prefer to still be a witness in good standing? Is it the fact that you were forced to give up one or the other that bothers you? Do you miss being a witness?

gumby

I should add an epilogue: after all that drama, you know what her excuse was? she was on misprescribed medication. she now claims to remember nothing of the year 2002

She sounds like quite the professional liar.

As far as squeeling on hypocrits......I have been tempted to fink on some......but I didn't. If someone was a major b-hole......I might,... but it would depend on the situation. I wouldn't wish shunning on anyone who has many family and friends in the borg......it might not be worth the hurt they might go through....or .....it could be a good thing for them. Depends on the person and the situation.

Gumby

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