So my brother called me last night...

by pale.emperor 8 Replies latest jw experiences

  • pale.emperor
    pale.emperor

    My older brother is studying with the witnesses. He was raised in a JW household like we all were but he never committed to it. He stopped attending meetings at 18yo, made a lot of bad decisions in his life and now, at 35yo is having a bible study. He's the poster boy of "what happens to people when they want to experience the world".

    This was the first time we'd spoken in months. He's been shunning me like the rest of my family have (even though he's not a JW yet, so he can actually talk to me if he wants to).

    We talked for about an hour about whats new with me and i kept it very nice and told him how great my life is now. It was HE who turned the topic to "the truth" in the last 20mins. Unfortunately for him, he's talking to a once very committed JW who did A LOT of research and bible reading before leaving the cult. So although he was trying to make me "see sense and return to Jehovah" it actually ended up with me planting some seeds.

    He told me that his study has told him "you're asking too many questions. When you get baptized things will become more apparent. Wait on Jehovah." I had to get him to repeat that because it sounded too incredible. Yes, he's asking "too many questions". I told him there's no such thing as too many questions.

    The following seeds were planted:

    The bible students used to teach that Christ would return in 1914 and bring Armageddon. When that never happened they then said that Christ did return but he was invisible. (He didnt believe this, so i sent him a scan from one of Russel's books later that evening). Now, this cant be true because the bible says Christ will return in the same manner that he left. And when he left, the apostles saw him float up to heaven with their own eyes. So if he's to return in the same manner, that means we'd see him with our own eyes come down from heaven.

    Acts 1:11: and said: “Men of Galʹi·lee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.”

    When we were kids, our dad used to say that Armageddon would definitely come within our lifetimes. Because there were people alive that were alive in 1914 who will still be here when Armageddon comes. Remember the generation that will never pass away?

    He then said "yes, but it's been updated" (he said it as if that was a positive thing). So i said "why do you think they changed it?" and he replied "well, because they all died".

    Then he went on about how he's nearly finished "the book". I asked what book, the bible? He said "no, the Bible Teach book." So i asked him how much of the bible has he read on his own. He said "he reads the bible with the Watchtowers and books and looks up the scriptures they tell him to". So i said "If you're having a bible study, the bible alone should be what you're studying, and the final word on your beliefs - if of course you believe the bible". (he knows im agnostic). Then comes the kicker... he said "yes but its impossible to understand the bible without the Watchtower." I asked him to repeat that. He did. I asked "why do you say that?". "Well, because gods chosen channel is the governing body and only they can tell us what the bible really teaches". I asked why he thinks that. His answer was "because it says so in the Watchtower".

    As incredible as that sounds that actually what he said. I very nicely told him of the many, many, many errors the Watchtower has made and told him to read the Feb 2017 Watchtower which confirms they're neither inspired or infallible. Then i asked him where does the "new light" come from if they're not inspired?.

    He said he'd ask his study conductor.

    There seems to be a trend lately. A few weeks ago my sister rings out of the blue (see my previous posts) and now this with my brother. They end up going away with more questions for their elders than me feeling scared of the big org.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    It seems odd he would call you on Xmas Eve.

    I wonder if his circular logic is something he's aware of.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    They'll be on your brother to never speak to you again because you obviously have a demon inside you.

  • Saename
    Saename

    Holy hell... Is it possible to be that unaware of logical fallacies? Even when I was being brainwashed I could still detect circular logic and other fallacies. I would always avoid those even when I was in the organisation. So strange. Sooo straaange...

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Remember the generation that will never pass away?He then said "yes, but it's been updated" (he said it as if that was a positive thing).

    WTF?!.

    WatchTower Logic:

    Oop`s!.....Everyones dead.......nevermind..

  • pale.emperor
    pale.emperor

    They'll be on your brother to never speak to you again because you obviously have a demon inside you.

    Yeah i know. He's still being love bombed. One particular elder has really latched onto him. Calls him twice daily to see how his is, they hang out, the congregation invite him to a lot of things. I know that once he's baptized they'll all go.

  • schnell
    schnell

    Interesting. My oldest brother came over yesterday, at first to have some beer with me, then he wouldn't drink, and then we were good all the way although he mentioned my Facebook post about the ARC and said he completely disagrees with me. I didn't really feel like arguing the point, but I'm not sure what or whom he disagrees with. It isn't just me saying this, it's the Australian Royal Commission. It's their findings, their interviews, their reports.

  • scratchme1010
    scratchme1010

    As incredible as that sounds that actually what he said. I very nicely told him of the many, many, many errors the Watchtower has made and told him to read the Feb 2017 Watchtower which confirms they're neither inspired or infallible. Then i asked him where does the "new light" come from if they're not inspired?.

    First, I find your post so interesting. I relate to it in many ways. Thank you for posting. I find very interesting what i quoted from you. I'm glad that you redirected him to the actual bible, making the difference between the Wt publications and the bible.

    Being the way I am, I always try to look at things from different angles. Yes, it's true and great that he may be understanding what you are telling him. However, I'd suggest to be sensitive to his reasons to take bible studies. Seems to me that as is, JW means recovery from his bad decision making. He may not be in a place where he can make a connection between his recovery and taking responsibilities for his own actions.

    What I mean is, if you persuade him that the WT is not good for him, he may not feel like he can find anything to shelter himself from making bad decisions. If he's using the WT as a way of finding a way of having a healthier life, aside from what the WT teaches, I think you should address many non-religious healthy ways of living and maintaining a healthy lifestyle.

    His WT background may have influenced in the bad decisions he took when he left. Point that the WT not only teaches how they are supposed to be as JWs, but also indoctrinates and convince people of what they are supposed to be if they leave. Some people have a hard time understanding that "what happens to people when they want to experience the world" indoctrination. That negative influence is precisely what had caused many ex-JWs going into the world with no life skills (especially those born in) and get them in trouble.

    It is great that you may be getting through him, but please consider his real reasons to become a JW, and those seem to have nothing to do with the Bible, not any of the JW teachings.

  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut

    See if you can get him to watch this documentary DEPROGRAMMED. It's on NETFLIX

    What got the ball rolling for me was the cover of the May 15 1984 Watchtower (shown below) that was placed all over the world by the millions, and it all turned out to be wrong.


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