ignorance is bliss

by teejay 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • teejay
    teejay

    I saw Kevin yesterday.

    We met almost twenty years ago. He's not overly blessed with a
    questioning or insightful mind, but his humble nature and generally
    positive outlook and wholesome sense of humor made sharing time with
    him enjoyable. He's just a good fellow.

    Kevin is a JW and works on the cleaning crew at the building were I work.
    We never went to the same hall but saw each other when the brothers got
    together to play basketball or at other social events. Occasionally he'd visit
    my hall and we'd work together in service.

    After going years without ever seeing each other, about two years ago we
    happened to meet late one afternoon. It was good to see his friendly face
    after so long a time. I walked over to say hello, to see what was new in his
    life and tell him what was new in mine. His mood was very reserved and
    somber and I soon found out why. He told me that he was disfellowshipped,
    his way of saying that a conversation would then be uncomfortable, if not
    impossible. By then I'd become mentally free of whatever control the
    Society had held over me and couldn't care less how they labeled him. I just
    wanted to renew an old friendship -- it made no difference to me what his
    religious status was. I was sure that he wouldn't understand.

    I understood his thinking, of course. We've seen and experienced it
    before. The disfellowshipped adopt this persona of walking dead when it
    comes to other JWs. He assumed I was a good JW and that I would toe
    the company line and treat him like every other JW who saw him. He was
    wrong on both points but my half-hearted attempt to break through his
    resistant wall of self-doubt put upon him by the Society wasn't effective. I
    decided not to push the issue and played along with his view of himself
    although it pained me to do so. I saw no alternative.

    About a year went by and I happened to see him again. He approached me
    this time and his mood was noticeably more cheerful. "I'm back," he said.
    He'd been reinstated. I never liked the term 'I'm back' especially when the
    person makes all the meetings. There they are, right among us, although
    they are ignored like lepers. They haven't gone anywhere, we just treated
    them as though we knew, without a doubt, that they were outside of
    Divine Favor and we were within it. I think I successfully concealed that
    my emotions were mixed when he told me of his reinstatement -- happy
    that he'd achieved a goal that was important to him but sad for him just
    the same.

    I'd love for Kevin to share my views of the Organization, but I think it
    would do very little to improve his life, if it helped at all. He is in his mid-
    forties, and following the lifelong obedience to the org. he has no
    education beyond high school and has no ambition to get any. He is single
    and out of loyalty to his god would not consider dating a "worldly"
    woman. He has little to offer a sister materially and he has little ambition
    to crack a whip in the congregation. For these reasons, few sisters give
    him a second thought so he's probably going to be single for a long time.
    He's content to "wait on Jehovah" to arrive astride a white stallion and
    provide him with a better life, and SOON. Always soon -- right around the
    corner. In the meantime, he's happy, working on a cleaning crew and
    living with the satisfaction that his life is being spent in a way that makes
    Jehovah happy somehow.

    And you know what? It's hard for me to see my life as superior to his.
    Who can say I'm any happier than him? Truth be told, people like Kevin,
    like my mother, like all the other Dubs that I view as enslaved, might even
    be happier than me, if happiness could be measured on a scale somehow.

    It's possible that Kevin and I may live another forty years and then our
    times on earth will pass. As death approaches, his faith will allow him to
    embrace his end in the comfort that his sleep will be brief. He'll die,
    comfortable and sure that he's lived a life of godly devotion. I'll be fairly
    certain that he didn't. In unconsciousness, in what will pass as an instant,
    he will awaken in a peaceful new world. I, on the other hand, will view
    death, not as a brief respite from toil and trouble, but as the enemy his
    bible says it is.

    It's something I wonder about sometimes. What's so awful about his
    belief system? Why is my knowing so much more than Kevin superior to
    his not knowing? So what if he didn't go to school? So what if it never
    dawns on him that he wasted so much time listening to strangers living in
    Brooklyn as they imposed rules on how he should live? He had friends. He had
    social activities. He had a secure belief that what he was doing was right.
    He had a life free from the pain of ever knowing that had been played for a
    sucker.

    What did I go and do -- finding out the whole truth about the 'truth'?
    Sometimes I can't help but think that it would have been better never to
    have known the full story, to live out my life in blissful ignorance.

    peace,
    todd
    ________________________________________________________
    "Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. "
    ------------------ Laurence J. Peter

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Do you know a bunch of blissful Jehovah's Witnesses somewhere? Hell, if you find them, let me know, maybe I'll go back, lol.

    I'm not afraid to speculate that I am WAY happier than Kevin. He has no guarantees, just "probably you MAY be concealed in the day of Jehovahs burning anger." We all know just how hot that anger has gotten in the past.

  • tergiversator
    tergiversator

    It's something I wonder about, when I think about my friends and family still in... if they are happy, who am I to judge that their happiness is inferior because it is based on a sham?

    I think however that I must agree with SixofNine: if your friend Kevin is as happy as he appears to be, he is probably very, very rare. Because most witnesses are being hurt by the organization, in very tangible ways: our parents and family and friends still in who suffer because they have little hope for their "dead" loved ones (er... no pun intended), who will not only die at Armageddon, but also should be treated as mostly dead now.

    Witness kids suffer. Even those who think they are doing what is right and are happy because of that (like I was) are still aware of the fact that they are postponing doing things that they would like to do because they have to. It doesn't take a very long list of missed educational opportunities or voice lessons or or school trips or hanging out with worldly friends (without the guilt trip) or being in a play or just not always being so darned different from everyone else every second of every day, to see why being a witness can eat away at whatever happiness is derived from "having the truth".

    I could go on, but the point I'm trying to make is this: there are many unhappinesses that ail good, obedient, loyal witnesses who wouldn't ever dream of doubting their doctrine. I wonder how many people there are who are simple enough that they would be truly happy with a lifetime of a low-skilled job, an insular routine of meetings and "good" association, unquestioning acceptance of every nuance of every dictate that comes out of Brooklyn, the necessity to always "put on a good face for the world", etc. I tend to doubt that many people could naturally be 'perfect' witnesses without chafing at some aspect or another, at some time in their life.

    The only thing that separates us from the ones still inside is a matter of degree: they're not unhappy enough to go through the massive upheaval of re-examining their entire life and belief structure and deepest held convictions, just for the promise of finding something happier. (Well, and then there's everyone else who's caught in between loved ones, and no one has yet come up with a way to really solve that problem...) At some level, perhaps unconsciously, I would venture to guess that most witnesses who appear generally satisfied, who are generally happy with life, at some point have made the mental calculation that the short term cost of finding out the truth and acting on it is too much for a little bit of continual wear and drain from a slowly corrosive religion. So they stay.

    That doesn't make it any easier for us, though. I heard from my mom today that my best friend called her up (after receiving a post card from me, I'm guessing) to tell her that she couldn't have any contact with me because her conscience wouldn't let her. She tossed in that innocent little zinger that many here have had to face at some point: when my friend was on the verge of leaving, she said, I was the one who encouraged her to stay. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.... she appears happy now. Who am I to judge?

    But if the balance ever tips the other way, if "happy enough" ceases to be enough, then I think we owe it to our friends to be there to help them find real happiness.

    -T., who is a sucker for living (as opposed to existing)

  • patio34
    patio34

    Teejay,

    I was one of the ones who would have appeared to others as 'so happy.' It is because of having inherited a naturally cheerful disposition. I was very unhappy and lonely most of the time, but no one knew. So, it's not really a fair assessment to judge on that basis, imo.

    And, I don't really believe that happiness is the criteria on how to live your life. I know of many JWs, as with the population in general, who are on antidepressant meds.

    Happiness is a lifetime work for each of us. What you see publicly doesn't reflect private lives.

    Your friend, Kevin, has given up a great deal, whether it bothers him or not. How can not having an opportunity to marry not bother someone? How can feeling like a lower class citizen not affect one's happiness, whether they show it or not?

    Believing in what I consider a fairy-tale-type belief can lead to happiness only in a very small, immature mind that is willing to shut out virtually everything else but the fairy tale.

    If one is not happy outside the WTBS, that still doesn't make the WTBS the "Truth." Some people aren't happy being out of prison, I suppose; but the problem is with the person and does not reflect on the correctness of the prison.

    "All religions die of one disease and that is being found out." F.N. Morley

    Take care,

    Pat

  • COMF
    COMF
    Sometimes I can't help but think that it would have been better never to have known the full story, to live out my life in blissful ignorance.

    Not me. I have to know. The facts, the reality, however harsh and barren it may be. I don't want the pretty lie, the dope that dulls my faculties and allow me to drift emotionlessly through life. If there are sharp rocks there, I want to see them. If there is scorched sand, I want to feel it beneath my feet.

    Turns out, though, that reality looks a lot like paradise! How 'bout that, huh? Who'da thunk it!

    COMF

  • anglise
    anglise

    Hi Teejay

    Surely the fact that your friend Kevin was DF for a while shows that somewhere within him there is an element of dubdom that he is unhappy with.
    He doesnt sound like the type that would make waves and have the local gestapo elders make an example of.

    Just a thought.

  • wannahelp
    wannahelp

    Hi TeeJay,

    Thanks for the post.. I've been looking for information like this for a while...

    Since I've never been a JW, I've been looking for the 'experience' so I know how best to approach my friend, or if I should leave my friend alone and let him be 'happy'..

    Actually, I've been trying to determine if he is happy or not...

    He says he is 'getting happy', or course, he's been getting happy the entire time I've known him..

    He also says he is continually forced to do things he does not want to do... (Hmm, there is that conscience .vs. watchtower doctrine thing again)

    Your post was exactly how I was feeling about 2 weeks ago when I started posting on this board.. I was looking for an answer to your very question.. Who am I to say I am better than he, and actually show him the truth, if in fact I'll be able to.. After all, he may be happy..

    From the two weeks I've spent on this board reading, and posting, I've come to realize exactly how much your emotions have to be turned off to be a witness... In fact, my friend has often said he doesn't have a heart...

    So, even though you are out, have you turned your heart back on yet? Or are you still living with the WT baggage that prevents your heart from actually feeling?

    I'll bet any slave whomever and wherever that slave is will always opt for freedom rather than continued slavery if given the option, even though it may require alot of re-adjustment, some of it painful, at first..

    More to the point, it sounds like you are having some difficulties with adjusting to your new found freedom.. So, how are you doing? Are you ok?

  • teejay
    teejay

    Six,

    Do you know a bunch of blissful Jehovah's Witnesses
    somewhere? Hell, if you find them, let me know… I'm
    not afraid to speculate that I am WAY happier than Kevin.
    He has no guarantees, just "probably you MAY be concealed…

    Either I didn't express myself well enough or you didn't understand.
    Either way, my point wasn't that all the Kevins of the world are
    blissfully happy but that it's likely that being a JW doesn't' make
    him any more miserable than anyone else (if that makes any sense).

    Also, even though I was raised in the truth, my personal views are
    such that now I have little reason to believe that any of what Kevin
    believes is based in fact, he just thinks it is. I know there are no
    guarantees but since he truly believes what the Society has told him,
    he may enjoy a certain level of comfort because of what he believes
    to be true.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    tergiversator,

    It doesn't take a very long list of missed educational opportunities
    or voice lessons or or school trips or hanging out with worldly friends
    (without the guilt trip) or being in a play or just not always being so
    darned different from everyone else every second of every day, to
    see why being a witness can eat away at whatever happiness is
    derived from "having the truth".

    ...there are many unhappinesses that ail good, obedient, loyal
    witnesses who wouldn't ever dream of doubting their doctrine.
    I wonder how many people there are who are simple enough that
    they would be truly happy with a lifetime of a low-skilled job, an
    insular routine of meetings and "good" association, unquestioning
    acceptance of every nuance of every dictate that comes out of
    Brooklyn, the necessity to always "put on a good face for the
    world", etc. I tend to doubt that many people could naturally be
    'perfect' witnesses without chafing at some aspect or another,
    at some time in their life.

    Good points, and thank you. I have been wondering about what
    I said about Kevin for a long time, years even. These two
    paragraphs have helped put those thoughts to rest. Scott Peck in
    People of the Lie said that anything that stood in the way of
    a person being able to live a full and happy life was evil. It was
    then that I came to the conclusion that the WTB&TS was evil. You
    have reminded me of it.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    pat,

    I was very unhappy and lonely most of the time, but no one knew.
    So, it's not really a fair assessment to judge on that basis, imo.

    I know of many JWs, as with the population in general, who are on
    antidepressant meds.

    What you see publicly doesn't reflect private lives.

    Kevin has given up a great deal, whether it bothers him or not. How
    can not having an opportunity to marry not bother someone? How
    can feeling like a lower class citizen not affect one's happiness,
    whether they show it or not?

    Believing in what I consider a fairy-tale-type belief can lead to
    happiness only in a very small, immature mind that is willing to
    shut out virtually everything else but the fairy tale.

    Very good points. In thinking of Kevin, I guess I assumed that he
    is as happy as I was when I was a JW. And I was… happy, that is.
    I guess i had an immature mind (by your definition) because I didn't
    mind a lot of the things in the religion that are distasteful to me now.
    I was thoroughly deluded and I figure there are people that are still
    like that and proud of it. Thinking of what you three have said, it is
    quite likely that there are many JWs in a constant state of misery,
    the dull kind that can't quite be identified. It's a shame to live that way.

    Thanks for your responses.

    Peace
    tj

  • teejay
    teejay

    COMF

    After I said, "Sometimes I can't help but think that it would have been
    better never to have known the full story, to live out my life in blissful
    ignorance" you said:

    Not me. I have to know. The facts, the reality, however harsh and
    barren it may be. I don't want the pretty lie, the dope that dulls my
    faculties and allow me to drift emotionlessly through life. If there are
    sharp rocks there, I want to see them. If there is scorched sand, I want
    to feel it beneath my feet.

    Actually, I'm exactly the same way. On another thread I asked for
    recommendations of some reading material. Lindy suggested
    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3460/quest.html
    it was exactly what I was looking for.

    I shared it with my very inactive but JW apologist sister. She was nearly
    livid, wondering why I bothered with so much negative information. My
    response to her was almost exactly like yours: "I jusss wanna know." I
    figure an ugly truth beats a pretty lie any day -- just TELLL me. Once I
    know the facts, we can go from there.

    Thanks, Cap'n, and good health to you.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Senior Member

    Surely the fact that your friend Kevin was DF for a while shows that
    somewhere within him there is an element of dubdom that he is
    unhappy with.

    You'd be surprised. A lot of the people who are df'd actually believe that
    they deserve the shitty treatment they get. It may not be a happifying
    experience, but it motivates them to conform and get back into the good
    graces of god and his chosen mouthpiece.

    He doesnt sound like the type that would make waves and have the
    local gestapo elders make an example of.

    He isn't. He's a very humble, likeable man, someone who you'd probably
    never notice, but if you did, you'd thank your lucky stars that you'd
    found a jewel of a human. He isn't a high-profile type… how he got
    himself df'd in the first place still isn't clear to me.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    wannahelp

    Since I've never been a JW, I've been looking for the 'experience' so I
    know how best to approach my friend, or if I should leave my friend
    alone and let him be 'happy'. Actually, I've been trying to determine if
    he is happy or not.

    I remember your 'arrival' a couple of weeks ago. (how's your JW
    friend's dating thing going?)

    Is he (your friend or Kevin) happy? That was the point of my post.

    Who's to say? I wonder if even he can say. I mean we can get real
    philosophical and question whether any of us are happy. Put some people
    in front of their favorite plate of food and they're "happy." Is that what
    happiness is? Sometimes people post on this and other ex-JW boards (or
    ex-Catholic, ex-Mormon, ex-Ex boards) and say that those still "in" are
    surely unhappy because of this or that or the other. I wonder. I know I
    can't be happy living that way anymore, but that's me. There's only one
    of me, thank god. I don't presume to speak for everybody.

    He says he is 'getting happy', of course, he's been getting happy the entire
    time I've known him. He also says he is continually forced to do things he
    does not want to do. (Hmm, there is that conscience .vs. watchtower
    doctrine thing again)

    I make my daughter go to bed even though she doesn't want to. When the
    time comes, she has to eat her vegetables. Like it or not, she will put away
    her toys and go to school. She will learn, whether she wants to or not, her
    ABCs and her math tables. We ALL do things we don't want to do, but they
    are for our good. Who's to say that what we view as harm being done to
    loyal JWs is really harm? The Watchtower capitalizes on this basic truth of
    human nature to its own advantage, of course.

    From the two weeks I've spent on this board reading, and posting, I've
    come to realize exactly how much your emotions have to be turned off
    to be a witness. In fact, my friend has often said he doesn't have a
    heart.

    Be careful of judging all JWs by either your friend or those of us that are
    here. Sometimes I wonder about us ex-JWs that post here (me included).
    Why are we still here? Why do we post so much? These two questions
    can be asked of those who never post but visit the site regularly to read
    what others write. Why do we do this? Is this type of behavior normal or
    ab-?

    As far as emotions, yes, JWs are unemotional about certain things.
    Birthdays, Mother's Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas songs playing at the
    mall, the Star Spangled Banner evoke a pittance of emotional response
    from the average JW. JWs are still emotional beings, of course. Their
    emotions are just redirected.

    The 'heart' comment of your friend I don't understand, but I DO understand
    this, and perhaps there is a connection: when I was a little boy, and the
    question of what I wanted to be when I grew up was asked, I never had a
    vision, a dream, of who I wanted to be when I grew up. I was not allowed
    to dream of a life other than the one preached by the Watchtower and so I
    didn't. Since most of the "worldly" professions required an education beyond
    high school, I never saw it for me. Maybe that's what your friend means when
    he says that he doesn't have a heart.

    So, even though you are out, have you turned your heart back on yet?

    Good question. Very good question. I don't know. Probably not.

    Or are you still living with the WT baggage that prevents your heart
    from actually feeling? I'll bet any slave whomever and wherever that
    slave is will always opt for freedom rather than continued slavery if
    given the option, even though it may require alot of re-adjustment,
    some of it painful, at first. More to the point, it sounds like you are
    having some difficulties with adjusting to your new found freedom. So,
    how are you doing? Are you ok?

    Very good questions, all. I think about their essence often. I'll answer this way:

    I've had counseling. It can be addictive. I don't waste my time when I've gone.
    Up front I've told them of my JW background because it goes a long way to
    explaining whatever difficulties I've had in my life. Needless to say, it came as a
    shock to the therapist (because I don't bullshit and mince my words), but not
    totally. She was very good. After listening to me spill my guts, she very
    accurately summed me up in four words whose simplicity literally stunned me,
    provoking a long silence: "you were a believer." I was precisely that.

    But not all JWs are. Some are able to see through the bullshit and find a way to
    coexist with the falsehoods, lies, and misinformation but stay connected to the
    religion. I was raised with it, though, and believed it from an early age, never
    learning the skill to see the 'truth' for what it is. If I ever had doubts I quite
    effectively covered them over years ago. It's been quite a journey, being
    Dorothy and coming to find that the Wizard is just a man, nothing more, forcing
    me to put aside a 30-year-long dream and build a life anew. As it's been said, an
    ex-JW will always be an ex-JW. I think that's why we still come here. We carry
    a lot of baggage that we probably will never fully let go of.

    Am I okay? How am I doing? I'm doing good. I just wonder sometimes. And
    dream. Thanks for asking.

    peace,
    tj

  • patio34
    patio34

    Teejay,

    Thanks for your personal replies to everyone.

    You seem like such a thoughtful and kind person. I hope you find peace and happiness.

    Btw, please accept my apology for the reference to small, immature' minds--I was thinking of myself for 28 years!

    It's just that I had to squelch so many thoughts and desire for more information that it seems I kept myself 'small' and confined to the info the WTBS provided.

    Pat

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit