Public Library and Creationism ... UGH (page 2)

Panda

You see this is my problem. Creationism is not "the other side" of Evolution. Evolution has no "other side". Evolution is science not religion. Creationists seem to think that fantasy should be taught to our children as a possibility. That is wrong not to mention uinfair to the kids. I believe you will find that sound reason , science, and paradigm shifts will always produce scientific proofs. Creationism is faith based. There are no accredited scientists who pose otherwise.

You know if you keep creationism in religion and quit trying to pit it against valid science I thjink there'd be no problem. Have we come so short a way from the Scopes(sp?) trial?

Also, our library only purchases books that the locals will read, so we're talking about a huge section of fiction. But hey Oprah reads fiction right? Also a large childrens section (which is good), no books on evolution. It's a poor county so donations are important to fill the shelves. I will donate some books soon (I'm trying to get a few HS science teachers involved). So we'll see. But it's very sad.

Thanks everyone for your ideas.Panda

czarofmischief

Evolution is not necessarily the answer. It is a possible explanation for existing evidence, but in terms of being absolute truth, has not yet been verified.

There are many problems with evolution, but even more so with creation. There may be a third hypothesis that answers all of them just as credibly or more so - and we just haven't come up with it yet. Personally, I go along with evolution for most of the animals, but the radically different nature of humanity makes me think that we are truly different in some bizarre way.

Creationism in the public libraries is annoying, but I also find books on Islam, in fact, any subject that catches my fancy, whether I like the ideas presented or not, and that is the function of a library. Not to be the organ of "truth" but the repository of "idea presentations" wherein we can pick and choose which work and which don't. I am fundamentally against the "scholarship" of communism which presents itself as being absolute truth - even though it doesn't work and cannot be proven. But I would never suggest banning the works of Marx and Engels.

I despise National Socialism and its inherent anti-Semitism, but Hitler's Mein Kampf has a place in the library - the ideas that not only didn't work, but caused incredible pain and suffering.

I don't like Nietzche's insane ramblings, but I read them anyway because I was seeking ideas for my own personal philosophy - and he gave me a good idea of what WASN'T the answer.

My point is, the library serves not only as a record of our successful ideas, but also our unsuccessful ones and what happened when we tried them. The Bible itself is a strong testimony against the power of blind faith, as you look and see the ridiculous consequences of following religious fanaticism.

CZAR

Panda

Czar, You must've read tons of those philosophic tomes because you have become a hegemon. I like your reasoning (except for calling Nietzche a rambler). And Yes a library should have both the successful and unsuccessful records.

I am wondering though how to teach the successful and unsuccessful to kids? How will they learn when their parents don't know either? How do you know what to look for if you've never heard the words before?

Us and other primates, only 1.5% difference.

hooberus

"Both sides" makes it seem like there's really some debate over whether evolution occurs. There isn't - not in scientific circles at least, and hardly at all outside the United States. Your primitive religious views are of no more importance than those of flat-earthers. Donate all the books you like, but don't imagine for a second that you're viewed as anything other than an ignorant religious crackpot because of it.

It is and it can. You simply choose to filter the overwhelming evidence through your presuppositional worldview. Without evolution, the entire science of biology is nothing but a collection of unrelated facts. Every advance in every area of biology in the century and a half since Darwin builds on his theories. A century ago, your view of the world was unsupportable. Today it is simply laughable.

You see this is my problem. Creationism is not "the other side" of Evolution. Evolution has no "other side". Evolution is science not religion. Creationists seem to think that fantasy should be taught to our children as a possibility. That is wrong not to mention uinfair to the kids. I believe you will find that sound reason , science, and paradigm shifts will always produce scientific proofs. Creationism is faith based. There are no accredited scientists who pose otherwise.

You know if you keep creationism in religion and quit trying to pit it against valid science I thjink there'd be no problem. Have we come so short a way from the Scopes(sp?) trial?

Rather than debate the above statements, I will post some links for those who wish to look into the evidence and qualifications of creationist scientists further.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

http://www.creationresearch.org/

http://www.trueorigins.org

hooberus

I got upset at our library yesterday. I found a video tape titled Evolution what's in your childs textbook (well thats not the exact title but close.)

Panda have you watched the video? Some of the evidences for evolution found in the textbooks (the apparent subject of the video) are based on faulty data. Some textbooks still use Haeckel's fradulant embryo drawings as evidence for evolution, do you think that students might benefit from knowing this?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1339.asp

logansrun

Interestingly, the "creationist" books at my library are in the section with religion and theology. Right where they belong, mind you.

B.

funkyderek

Rather than debate the above statements, I will post some links for those who wish to look into the evidence and qualifications of creationist scientists further.

Well, there's a surprise.

Those who want to check the claims made at those sites, see http://www.talkorigins.org

Maybe you've got something there, hoob. This is way easier than debating.

Panda

Thanks guys ... I do have some excellent news... now don't get too awfully giddy BUT The state of Texas has outlawed Text books which teach creationism. Creationism is religious (they said) not scientific, not biology .... Oh gosh I am happy. Panda

hooberus

Thanks guys ... I do have some excellent news... now don't get too awfully giddy BUT The state of Texas has outlawed Text books which teach creationism. Creationism is religious (they said) not scientific, not biology .... Oh gosh I am happy. Panda

Panda, were people attempting to introduce textbooks that "teach creationism" in Texas schools? or were they simply pointing out scientiffic errors in evolutionary textbooks?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2003/0930texas.asp

The textbook approval process recurs every six years. When it came up this year, supporters of ?intelligent design? saw a golden opportunity to challenge the evolutionary establishment. So they?and their local followers, such as Texans for Better Science Education?alerted the board to the blatant errors in the proposed biology textbooks (e.g. the peppered moth and embryonic recapitulation frauds). The complainants cited the board?s rules that require textbooks to be ?free from scientific errors.?

Look at the simple request that stirred up this ?controversy.? Concerned Texans didn?t request that the Bible?s history be taught in schools. They didn?t even ask for intelligent design to be included in textbooks. Nor did they, as Gilman suggests, want to keep students from knowing about evolution. All they wanted was accurate biology textbooks that give honest information for and against evolution, the belief system being promoted to answer the most important, difficult question of biology?where did we come from?

Panda

hooberus, Did I mention that Creationism is religious and biological evolutionary theory is science. Was there something in those words you didn't understand? It seems very simple to me. Study the biology, not the frantic half-truths of fundy's. The kids I get to talk with have explained evolution to me, and I am happy to say that even they know the difference between science and religion... out of the mouths of babes.

Anyway, I didn't make a fuss at the library, I just returned the tape. No comment. That was good advice from whoever gave it to me earlier. I have found recently through this forum that there are many Christian evolutionists (I had another thread about this). So once again it is the fundy's who show themselves as negative. Which of course they are. It's like everything human is bad, dirty, sinful and violent. Well they make the world that way with their rotten expectations.

Panda hugs her Great Ape cousins.

Public Library and Creationism ... UGH

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