Are the witnesses less sincere today?

by freedom96 18 Replies latest jw friends

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  freedom96

  I was ready larcs thread talking about the way it used to be.

  Started to think, as time has gone by, with all the changes the organization has made, are the witnesses less sincere today than they were perhaps 40 years ago?

  I was two when my mom got baptized, so all I knew growing up was the Watchtower. I remember some of the 70's, and all of the 80's. For me, I don't remember real changes in peoples attitudes, but I think by then things had already changed.

  Back when the religion was not quite as radical in their teachings and actions, in a different era, it seems like they may indeed had been more sincere. Too much going on in ones life today to really care.
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  SanFranciscoJim

  Back when the religion was not quite as radical in their teachings and actions, in a different era, it seems like they may indeed had been more sincere.

  After I was placed on public reproof for going to see an R rated movie (The Rocky Horror Picture Show), most of the congregation shunned me.

  Interestingly, the only members of my congregation who saw through the frivolity of the reproof and continued speaking to me were the three elderly sisters of the "anointed" class. They not only tolerated my presence, but encouraged me with kind words, phone calls to make sure I was all right, and regular dinner invitations! In fact, when it came time for the District Assembly, I was the only person in my congregation who offered the three elderly women, none of whom drove, a ride to the assembly. All three graciously accepted. Had it not been for this publicly reproved person, none of the "anointed" from our congregation would have been able to attend the assembly.

  With few exceptions, I always found the elderly folk in the congregations I went to, those who had been JWs in the Russell and/or Rutherford eras, to be much less judgemental and quite sincere. Those of my generation and later have learned to master the art of shunning and judgement (and gossip!) all too well.
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  garybuss

  
  
  Back in the 50's and 60's the Witnesses were more apologetic and could make a pretty good stand. I never saw one back down from a discussion and walk away then. Now that's all I see. It's either agree with us because we say so, or we will shun you. Period!!! There is no discussion anymore that I have seen.
  
  It's like they got bigger guns to protect the kingdom and then dumped the kingdom in the garbage and went and got still bigger guns. It's like . . . . what are they protecting now? Like they are protecting the right to have the right to protect.
  
  Now it's a construction / book publishing club and we are the enemy. GaryB
  
  
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  ScoobySnax

  No, they are no less sincere as a whole. I'm speaking from experience here having attended this years convention and Memorial. The brothers and sisters are just the same. On the whole a good bunch of people, doing their best to do the right thing despite the many pressures and struggles.
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  Euphemism

  I don't think they're less sincere... but I think that the organization has changed because most of the members were raised as witnesses. So there are the hangers-on, who believe that it's the truth, but never fully embraced all the teachings; and there are the seemingly loyal ones, who have mastered the art of double-think, and can thus break the rules in their time off, even while spouting the usual platitudes when they're on the platform.
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  petespal2002

  I do think that people in general are less sincere in everything today. It tends to be the older generation that stick to their guns in any aspect of belief, or indeed, life! I'm not implying that there are no sincere younger individuals anymore, just fewer of them. That's just the world we've been raised into. It's not a sincere world, and society as a whole is not sincere. Look at our politicians as a case in point. Actors to a man!
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  Room 215

  I don't think that today's JWs are less sincere; I think overall they're more impersonal. The size of the organization I think has sapped it of much of its vitality and it's moving inexorably toward institutionalization. Witnesses today feel less embattled, at least in the developed nations, and therefore less dependent on one another.

  Time was, 50 or so years ago that JWs really bonded and relied on each other for help and wouldn't hesitate to call upon one another in an emergency. I don;t know about other places, but here in my wife's congregation, that would be all but unthinkable today; I've observed very few close friendships and its rare that the locals know much abour where the others live, save for maybe two or three exceptions.

  They seem to come to meetings, do their thing, drift out of each other's lives after the closing prayer, and then drift back together again for the next scheduled meeting.
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  TD

  I think the answer is "No" for several reasons.

  New converts to any religion generally are far more serious than third, fourth or fifth generation members. This isn't just restricted to the Witnesses, but is just as true for any of the religions that sprang up in the 19th century. (e.g. LDS, SDA, etc.)

  There was a time when the Witness religion was composed almost entirely of converts. As long as the movement experienced rapid growth, new converts continued to compose a sizeable percentage of overall membership. However Witness demography has gradually shifted. This is the unavoidable consequence of moderate growth coupled with more and more members bearing and raising children in the religion. Judging from what I have observed at Witness conventions in the U.S., it seems that with each passing year, a higher percentage of baptisms are performed on the children of existing members.

  Children often do not share whatever mindset that moved their parents or their parent's parents to become True Believers and that's just a fact of life that affects all mass movements.

  I think it's also hard to deny that the Witness faith has by degrees, been "dumbed down" over the years. For example, there was a time when "written reviews" were handed in and graded. There was a time when the study questions were asked before the paragraph was read. There was a time when there was no such thing as a "reading assignment."

  Similarly, there was a time when study articles actually addressed doctrinal questions of "how" and "why" and not just "what, where & when." Consequently There was a time when the average Witness could explain how the date for their memorial of Christ's death was arrived at. There was a time when the average Witness could explain how they derived the 2520 year figure from the Bible. There was a time when the average Witness could reel off the significance of each of the metals of Daniel's dream image as easily as they could recite their own address.

  People that cringe at the thought of having to explain the nuts and bolts of their faith cannot possibly be as confident in those beliefs as those who can. I think this is the case with many Witnesses today.

  Lastly, I think there was a time when the Witness were far more confident in their perceptions of where they are in the stream of time. At the height of the cold war, their interpretation of the "King of the North & South" provided a reassuring explanation for a worrisome situation. Today that interpretation mostly lies in shambles. Similarly the generation that saw 1914 was aging at the time, but had not passed away by any stretch and the very idea that the organization might someday backpedal on this interpretation would have been scandalous. Today that tangible anchor point is gone.

  I think all these things combine to produce a membership composed of far fewer True Believers. I don't mean to imply that this is a character flaw on the part of Witnesses, (Quite the opposite!) it's just what happens as times change and mass movements age.
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  willyloman

  TD: Well articulated. Loved your "tangible anchor point" reference. Dubs today are on cruise control, in many cases, waiting for a new sign, and some are starting to vote with their feet.
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  kilroy2

  the average dub is sincere but that does not say much, as they are so mind numbed that thay cant think for them selves to decided if it is ok to fart with out checking a past tower to see if it would be Christian.

  I have been around the dubs for 30 years and I will tell you the young ones do not remember the flight to safety in the early seventies when many many dubs headed for the hills i.e. country side just before 75, you remember 75 that was when the big A happened, well almost. oh yah that was our fault we were jumping ahead of the fds [fem deo spray] yes they have changed and if any one says different than they have not been around the dubs for more than a couple of years, when I was growing up in the early 70s you could get your privileges taken away for watching rowin and martins laugh in, today it is so tame it is not funny. you could not go to collage it was not up to you, you may as well join the military. we were told that we were bodies in school, to come home as soon as the last bell rang and we did not associate with our neighbors except to pawn off old towers.

  Women were told from the platform not to wear red whit and blue together,.as this was being patriotic.

  most of the dubs I knew would try to stay away from doctors as when they were growing up the fem body spray told them that doctors were evil servants of Satan, my wife when I first met her almost died as her mother and father refused to take her to a hospital when she had scarlet fever, instead they took her to a homeopathic doctor and gave her sugar pills. she is 5 foot 3 and she was down to 75 pounds, I can still remember screaming at he so called father to take her to a doctor. have things changed you bet your ass they have and no apologies from the fem body spray for all the crap they put the rank and file through with all the aluminum is the devils metal doctors are evil ,vaccines are horse puss, tv is the devils entertainment. I hope [and I am sincere in this] that the current gov, body all gets Alzheimer and cant remember where thair dicks are. but that?s me.