Answered prayers

by Oldhippie 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • Sunbeam
    Sunbeam

    I'm with Bill on this one, I've definitely had prayers answered. My first *real* prayer(other than things like 'please, God, let me get to work on time for once')was when I first understood the gospel and responded in prayer. I received an unequivocal answer that out-fruitcakes somebody's dream experience.

    I saw myself being lifted up (cue my husband's Python-esque interjection here) above the planet and at the same time felt greatly loved, safe and somehow 'chosen'. I had been fretting about the JW influence on our family, but suddenly knew that the whole JW thing was simply part of a continuum and that there was nothing to fear.

    I later found out that my friend's church group had prayed for me as they knew that I was looking into Christian things. They had prayed that I would have a tangible, emotional experience.

    I've discovered that these feelings are quite common at the moment when people come to faith. Wesley described a similar experience when he heard the gospel explained.

    A friend, Dave, told me that he had decided to ask God to prove once and for all whether his Christian work colleague was nuts or if he (God) really existed. He was working late at the time and was sitting in an empty open-plan office in semi-darkness, with only his desk light on. At that moment, all of the lights in the building came on and then went off again. He nervously asked God if he could do it again. All the lights duly came on and went off. Dave said that he experienced an indescribable feeling of joy that night and literally skipped home like a little kid.

    As someone has said - 'all I know is, coincidences stop happening when I stop praying.'

    Sunbeam
    xxx

  • Lindy
    Lindy

    No, I can't say I have had one single prayer answered. This was something that bothered me. It fed into my self-image and sense of self. I figured that God didn't want anything to do with me. I did all I could to get his attention. The sisters around me got their prayers answered, what was wrong with me? They told me to be specific. I did. Got nothing. Ask for things along God's will. I did. Nothing. I figured the few bad things that I did must be the end of God's love for me. When I had my crisis of conscience with my religion, I prayed and prayed for a sign that I was wrong in what I felt and what I had found out about the Society. After I finally figured it out, I then realized God did answer me. He didn't want me associating with the WTBTS because he was no longer with them. More research led me to believe as I do now, that God is not there listening and more than likely never was and no ones prayers are answered. But believing so can make the right things happen. You can make them happen though because you believe they will. You do all the right things and things work out. If not, it was not in your power to begin with and you say it was not God's will for you. You blame youself.
    It goes along the thinking that God is with both teams playing against each other and on both sides of the wars that are killing people everyday. He can't possibly be with all these idiots!! Yet they keep playing and waring and when they win it was with God's blessing so it makes all competion and the killing okay. If you don't win then it was because you lost God's blessing or he has other plans for you, or you need to work on something such as humility.
    It is the same with people dying and when destruction hits with hurricanes and tornadoes. If you live it is God's will and you bless him and prayers were answered. If not, then it is Satan's doing. If the local KH survives it is with God's protection. "God doesn't give you more than you can bear", is another good one for when bad happens and prayers aren't answered. It is a no win, because people will find a way to be blessed or persecuted for God's sake no matter which way anything goes.

    Lindy (Antique)

  • patio34
    patio34

    Lindy,
    2 things: why do you put (Antique) after your name?

    And, your section on prayers working out because of your own efforts reminded me of a saying: "Hard work brings good luck."

    And as George Carlin once said: Religion is fine as a crutch for temporary help . . . but if you use a crutch too long, it deforms you.

    I COULD say that my cancer of 2 years ago left because of my faith in God (I was very 'theocratic' then). But more realistically, it was the doctors who treated it agressively that got rid of it.

    Besides, if you're a j-dub, you aren't supposed to ask for cures anyway, but merely to be able to carry on the work. What a hypocritical request!

    Pat

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    This topic intrigues me. Because I would answer, yes, I have had my prayers answered. And yet, the HOW of them being answered could play into the "hands" of those here who say it's all up to one's self. That is, on reflection, oftentimes when I feel my prayers have been answered, I realize I have been careful to work in harmony with my prayers.

    For example: I was trying to convert my cousin who is older than me and quite strong-willed. After many years of a somewhat wild lifestyle (at least wilder than mine! ) she became "born again." We had been estranged, but because we have always had a special bond, and because she knew I was a spiritual person, she renewed contact with me. I have always been an unorthodox JW in that I'm willing to really listen to another person's religious viewpoint and consider that what I believe might be in error -- that THEY might have something to teach me.

    Now, my cousin was praying that I escaped the clutches of the Borg (without my knowledge). She accepted literature and we "conversed" via e-mail quite a bit on religion.

    At the same time, I was praying that Jehovah show me whether or not I had the "true" religion -- unbeknownst to Cuz.

    But I wasn't just praying. I was reading my Bible (independently) daily. And I had recently come back into contact with an old boyfriend who was now involved in a Mission group who refused to debate me on the Trinity and told me that only holy spirit could truly teach me. This despite my rather begging him to tell me how he could believe such a thing -- which, to me is totally incomprehensible -- because if I could just wrap my mind around it, there were so many other avenues that would be opened to me!

    This minister friend told me that he was concerned for me because of my involvement with what he believed was a cult. I knew that his concern was genuine. We had a history. He loved me, and still loves me and I, him. He mentioned several books he had taken the time to read once he knew that I was hooked up with the JWs.

    Remember, all this time I am praying to God to let me know whether I am worshipping Him in the way He would like.

    So I buy the only one of the books that I can find at Barnes & Noble and began reading the chapter on Jehovah's Witnesses. At first I am enraged. What a very biased book!!! (Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults) I skip over the information on CT Russell himself (having read that in Barbara Grizzuti Harrison's book years before -- can't recall the title just now, excerpts are on Randy's site), sit at my keyboard, book in hand, Bible at hand, and begin writing my own apologetic. I spend hours and hours on my "Martin Refutation." I find some errors he makes and feel vindicated; I am jubilant because I am up to the task of contesting his viewpoints quite handily! But still I am praying.

    At the same time, I am doing research on the Trinity. On the internet. At the library. At the Christian book store. In the ancient texts, etc. (I still cannot be convinced that the Trinity is sound doctrine to this date.) Included in this is systematically studying the Gospel of John to see whether it really teaches the Trinity. (I concluded it did NOT, btw.)

    Still I am praying. But notice that I am, very diligently I might add, working in harmony with my prayers.

    To make a long story short, after several months of this: prayer, Bible reading, apologetics, and non-WT research; I come to the conclusion that the WTBTS is NOT God's mouthpiece and that I should no longer be afraid to read frankly "apostate" material.

    So I purchase CofC and In Search of Christian Freedom. Even before I read them, I go in search of a new church home. Find one. Lead a double life because I really, really want to reach my good friend and I know it will take quite some time. Once I read the books, I am GONE from ALL KH meetings.

    Still praying, I join a Sunday morning Bible class. I like the way the elder who leads it prays. I later find out he is a Berean Christian (non-Trinitarian) who also feels comfortable in this particular church. I enjoy the study, because other than a few notes from commentaries shared with us students, we use only the Bible! And people yell out answers without being called on, and sometimes even interrupt one another!!!

    A few months later I join the Women's Bible Study group, which is really cool because people go in sweatshirts and jeans!!!, and later, it is this group that I ask to pray for me when I know that I am going to disassociate myself. (My hand was forced, as some of you have read elsewhere.) I asked for them to pray that I have joy while I faced a test of faith (they still don't know I'm an ex-JW).

    Still praying, I went to the KH for the announcement. I could've stayed home, but I wanted to radiate the joy I felt in having made the right decision, I didn't want the Friends to think I was ashamed or saddened about leaving. I asked my cousin and my friend to pray for the same thing, only more specifically, because I was afraid I might cry to be leaving certain ones in the congregation. My friend e-mailed me that he had prayed, would be praying and mentioned a Psalm that came to his mind.

    When the meeting night came, I sat down front, on purpose -- the better to make my joyful exit and have all see it. It was my witness to the Witlesses! When the DA announcement did not come at the usual point at the beginning of the service meeting, I had to remain and the only thing that calmed me (the claptrap from the podium was just plain nauseating!) was reading the aforementioned Psalm -- twice. It calmed me like nothing else because of the love that went with the mention. I hung onto that and to the knowledge that the ladies and my cousin and my dear DF'd friend were all also praying for me.

    If I do say so myself, I made a STUNNINGLY JOYFUL exit with a HUGE grin on my face (which I later learned had many scratching their heads in puzzlement)!!!! I nearly kicked up my heels in the parking lot.

    Now: was my exodus from Witlessland a result of my hard work or a response to my prayers? Who can tell? A little of both, perhaps?

    Psychologically I realize that because I believed God was a Hearer of Prayer, I had the strength to carry out my plan. Also I had love from my "cast of thousands".

    But did I put me in that place? Or did Yahweh bring me through all of this -- meaning my entire life and all the places of worship that I have visited for a time and then moved on from?

    I don't know.

    I have more instances when I have felt answers to prayer, but I think that's rather enough for now, don't you?

    outnfree

  • COMF
    COMF

    I was gonna expound some, until I read Auntie's post. Now I can just say, "What she said."

    And yet, the HOW of them being answered could play into the "hands" of those here who say it's all up to one's self.

    What does "play into the hands of" mean? We're going to use your words with evil intent? Try to destroy your faith? You might inadvertently assist us in our war against God? Y'all break out the Lysol, folks, we got Satanic Atheist-agnostics working against us on this board!

    For crying out loud, outnfree, what is, is, and nothing you or I say will make it one whit the other way. Rest easy; your words, and your faith, are safe from the machinations of Satan.

    COMF

  • Scorpion
    Scorpion

    outnfree,

    I enjoyed your reading post. The book by Barbara Grizzzuti Harrison you mentioned is "Vision Of Glory" by Simon and Shuster (1978) now out of print. She has another great book out called "What Could Be More Tempting Than An Exclusive Club Run By God Himself." You can do a search on Yahoo, just type in her name and there are over 300 entries for her works. My mother read Visions of Glory and left the WT shortly afterwards. This was around 1981.

  • Scorpion
    Scorpion

    XJWBill,

    As usual your insight and wording is unequivocal.

  • Scorpion
    Scorpion

    I have had prayers answered. The list is to long to type and explain each.

    I would say one of the biggest answer to one of my prayers is when I received full physical custody of my three kids. Even my own attorney could not believe how all the events transpired that brought about me receiveing custody. I prayed that I did not care about anything other than the welfare of my kids and that if God see's that being with me other than my decietful evil ex-wife, then please grant me full custody. It happened even though two other attorneys besides mine said it would not. I lost just about everything in the divorce except my truck and my business. I prayed for help in rebuilding my life and the kids and to try my best under the circumstances to put the kids first. There is a ton of things to tell about how it all transpired, but I could see and feel God working in my life and still do today.

    All three kids are doing great. My youngest daughter made principals honor-role all year, she is in the 7th grade. My son is top in the chess class at school besides being fantastic in sports. My oldest daughter is driving me nuts. Hey, two out of three ain't bad. Actually, she is almost a straight A student. She is just getting very independant which is good and can be bad.

    To look back at where I was with three kids, not sure about where things were heading and how I was going to swing all the schedules etc, it was somewhat scary. Things have worked out very well. I am not saying that I did not have to put forth effort to bring things about, I am just saying that God blessed that effort and gave me strength.

    This is just one aspect on how God has answered my prayers. I have prayed for things and still do pray for things that I have not seen an answer to. Maybe God is working on these prayers, maybe not. Time will tell. Maybe it is better some prayers are not answered.

    Stan

  • Sunbeam
    Sunbeam

    Scorpion, I'm glad your kids are doing well. Regardless of whether it was down to prayer, it sounds as though you're truly blessed.

    Outnfree, I had real problems accepting the whole Trinity doctrine too. As you say, most of the usual 'proof texts' in John's gospel aren't necessarily conclusive. Eventually, I decided it wasn't that important anyway.

    But not so long ago, I came across a book 'How to respond to Jehovah's Witnesses' by Herbert Kern, pastor of a church in Long Island. The intro says he took a special interest in JW's after he arranged a debate with them at his church in 1957. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall that day!

    Anyway, his stuff on the Trinity is really good. He makes several assertions about it, each backed up by lists of scriptures. I don't want to clog the thread with it, but if you are interested here are a few examples:

    As True Man, Jesus was born in Bethlehem, was hungry, prayed, said "The Father is greater than I" and did not know the day of final judgement.
    But as True God, Jesus said "Before Abraham was born, I am!", fed a multitude and said "I am the bread of life", answers prayer, proclaimed his equality with God, and accepted Peter's statement, "Lord, you know all things"

    Jesus is equated with God several times in scripture - same name and titles (Lord, God, I am, shepherd, first and last), worthy of the same honor, same qualities, same acts.

    There's lots more, including stuff about the Spirit but I won't go on. I once tried to write down what I believed, and discovered that sometimes I couldn't decide which word was most appropriate - Jesus, God or the Spirit. In many ways they are interchangeable. As your friend says, the Trinity is also an experience. I can definitely feel all 3 at work in my life - God above me, Jesus beside me and the Spirit transforming me from the inside.

    So after some time wrestling with it, it began to make sense to me.

    Thanks for telling us about your grinning walk to freedom. It's not so bad out here on the outside is it?

    Sunbeam
    xxx

  • Lindy
    Lindy

    I put (Antique) after my name because I changed my name from Antique to Lindy when I came here and I wanted my friends from other places to know it was me. I noticed that there are still some coming here that have not been here before so I still do it. I probably will stop after a while. That is why COMF call me "Auntie" and others Antique.

    BTW, I am glad that your cancer surrendered to treatment. Religion does produce possitive thinking if you truly believe. And possitive thinking has been proven to work out for a person in healing the body. So in that way, I quess you could say that prayers are answered. But athiests get the same results just practicing possitive thinking in other ways. It just depends on the game you play.

    Lindy (Antique)

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