Ray Franz and 1975

izobcenec

Did Ray Franz believe that end would come in 1975...I am asking that because my JW friend said, that he listened to his talk few years before 1975 and that Ray was very clear about 1975...my JW friend is blaming Ray and those who were d/f in 1980 for 1975 fiasco and because they were d/f, he doesnt see any problem with 1975...Thanx for your comments

Hamas

That wasn't Ray Franz, that was FRED FRANZ, his uncle.

Freddy was WT president, he made the descisions.

If you go here

http://www.freeminds.org/video/video.htm

You can listen to freddy make these predictions.

Benny Sikter

Hi izobcenic, Tell your JW friend that he can blame all members of The Governing Body for 1975 fiasco. Don't just blame brother Ray Franz who indeed was deceived by his anointed brothers at that satanic time of Jehovah's Witnesses' bad history. (See Matthew 18:6) "It does not belong to you to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the FATHER has placed in His own jurisdiction." (Acts 1:7) "Add nothing to His Word, that He may not reprove you, and that you may not have to be proved a liar." (Proverbs 30:6) Which one of the Jehovah's Witnesses is not a liar, a son of Satan the Devil? I don't know any. (See John 8:44) Love

izobcenec

Hamas: this JW was very specific about Ray Franz's talk at Munich international assembly in Germany in 1973, where he (my JW friend) was present...he said that Ray was talking about 1975 very clearly and that all present understood, that the end will come in 1975.

berylblue

I'm on my way to North Jersey (ugh; hate North Jersey) but I think in CoC Ray readily admits that he at one time supported the sone of the WTS views, others he did not; but as an "official" of the WTS, his job was to support the "company". However, with some WTS beliefs which he himself did not buy he had a difficult time telling others he believed because he did not. For example, there was a point when some were questioning the fact that Jesus is the mediator only for the annointed. A quote was made (I think at Bethel Breakfast but I'm not sure) that Jesus was not the mediator for "every Tom, Dick and Harry". Ray felt that Jesus WAS the mediator for every Tom, Dick and Harry. Yet he dodged answering questions like that when asked personally. There are many examples of this in CoC.

I think Ray said that, even at the end, only a very few persons knew how he really felt about things; he had to sit his own wife down and tell her because she hadn't a real idea of how much he disagreed. Considering what happens to those who disagree, cCan you blame him?

berylblue

btw, Ray is very open about such things; why not write him? He's written me several beautiful letters. I think its

[email protected]

berylblue

Hamas, wtf is that avatar?

Please put your photo back up. There is no way I'm going to be sighing over that ...whatever.... in the photo.

DanTheMan

from Crisis of Conscience, Third Edition, p. 236: (the highlighted words are my addition)

I would not pretend that I did not feel stirred myself in 1966 when the book Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God [written by Fred Franz] came out with its glowing picture of the nearness of a millenial jubilee. Nor would I claim to have had no part whatsoever in the early part of the campaign to focus attention on the target date of 1975. But each passing year from 1966 made the idea seem more and more unreal. The more I read the Scriptures the more the whole concept seemed out of line; it did not square with the statements of Jesus Christ himself...

So yes, he admits to being swept up in the 1975 fervor, at least initially. But how does your friend make Ray responsible for the whole fiasco?

JT

So yes, he admits to being swept up in the 1975 fervor, at least initially. But how does your friend make Ray responsible for the whole fiasco?

easy- come on dan you know jw can make up anything they want to fit-

almost every single one of us who have left the org have been referred to as wicked, not wanting to go in service, wanting to do badness, not waiting on jah and the list goes on and on

never will jw say the real reason, "Bill left the org cause he found out that we were teaching things not supported by the bible even though we said it was"

that comment will never be made about any of us who left

his friend is doing what is called Grasping for straws, looking for anything that will keep them from having to face the music

most of us did it as well, for to acknowledge that ray is right means that they have wasted thier lives chasing a lie

and reality is not something most jw can deal with

garybuss

A person who chooses to believe that which is convenient and not provable will most likely continue to believe that which is convenient and not provable. This is a person who believes a talking snake got a naked woman to eat some fruit and some invisible dude drowned all the babies and the seven Watch Tower Publishing Corporation sponsored conventions in the USA in the 1920's were predicted in Revelation.

If he believes the purge of 1981 was a righteous purge of the unrighteous based on fifth or tenth hand information and that information fits "the pattern of truth", I have to think it will be next to impossible to introduce anything rational to him.

I have Witness relatives who told me the same thing. It must be a corporate thing. They are not bothered by 1975 because they believe those who produced and delivered the wrong information are gone. I am not bothered by 1975 because I quit my connections with the publishing corporation and it's distribution division that produced and delivered the wrong information. None of us are bothered by 1975. It's easy to see why that is not a good subject to discuss with a Jehovah's Witness.

I am a person who encourages all who are satisfied with the objective Witness history and quality of the current literature, satisfied with the competency of the Witness leaders, and satisfied with the structure and the association in their congregations to stay Witnesses. I am not willing to have any discussions with them. I have nothing to offer them that they could accept. GaryB

Ray Franz and 1975

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