Should a Priest ,Elder ,Pastor withold a crime from the relevant authorities because of a confidential confessional ?

smiddy

What do you believe , is a confessional something that is sacred between the the two parties involved ? or does it depend on the severity of the crime/sin.

Or is their a responsability of the recpient of the confession to divulge what he/she knows about the crime.?

What we see in movies ,Tv, etc shows it is a no no .but is that true ?The confessional is only between the two involved.?

How many crimes have gone unpunished because of these archaic policies .

If you had become aware of a crime within the organization would you have reported it to the authorities or only to the Elders.?

If it is only to the Elders it may never go any further , if it is only to a priest it may never go any further..

And the victims never get justice for the crimes committed against them.

little_Socrates

If someone confesses to something in the past..... and they have made an effort to actually repent of what ever the issue was it should stay between the clergy and the person.

Now on the other hand if it is a currently happening crime, or there is reason to think any one might be in danger due to the persons actions... the clergy member has a very clear moral obligation to go to the authorities.

The clergy going to the authorities should never be about making sure the person was punished... it should solely be to protect the innocent.

The Searcher

Since "confession" to a priest or elders is verifiably an unscriptural, religious dogma, there is absolutely nothing "sacred" about it! Therefore, it should not be used as a justification for concealing serious crimes.

LoveUniHateExams

Should a Priest, Elder, Pastor withold a crime from the relevant authorities because of a confidential confessional? - absolutely not.

And law should be changed to charge any priests who do this with obstructing justice.

C'mon you politicians and bland bureaucrats - show some backbone and make this happen ...

evilApostate

When I went to my counselor he handed me an agreement to sign before we started our session. It basically stated that if I told him of any crimes or intention to commit crime like murder, rape etc then he would have to warn the person involved and the authorities. He said that it was required by law.

If rules like these apply to counselors and the like, then why should they not also apply to priests/pastors?

Vidiot

little_Socrates - "If someone confesses to something in the past... and they have made an effort to actually repent of what ever the issue was, it should stay between the clergy and the person..."

Philandery, drug use, or shoplifting? Sure.

But sexual assault or murder? I don't think so.

scratchme1010

What do you believe , is a confessional something that is sacred between the the two parties involved ? or does it depend on the severity of the crime/sin.

In USA, as long as the person enters a fiduciary relationship with the priest or authority, the law is very clear. The priest or other authority must report to the police when a person's or another person's life is at risk of harm. The rest, no, there's no legal obligation, and that's done based on the ridiculously false premise that priests and religious figures of authorities are supposed to have good morals and do the right thing.

The issue is if child sexual abuse is considered life threatening. That's part of the reason instead of calling those children "victims of sexual abuse" they call the "survivors of sexual abuse".

cha ching

It's funny, I was just thinking of starting a thread like this myself. After sifting, sifting, sifting, reading, reading, reading... getting use to reality, I wanted to ask:

What does the word "crime" mean?

Don't people report "crimes" to the police?

In JW world, if someone had their house broken into, and were robbed, would they call the police? or an elder? would they call the "Society first?"

Which "crime" is worse? Robbery? or child abuse?

Not reporting a "crime" is like giving a criminal permission to keep going & going, committing more crimes, hurting more people.

Child abuse hurts people mentally, it takes away their childhood, it puts them in fear, traumatizes them.

Crime is the key word. Child abuse is a crime. Report it to the police.

Vidiot

@ cha ching...

In many ways, the WT hierarchy has always been frozen in a 50s mentality, where covering up the abuse of children was the norm, not reporting it (family pride, among other things).

And when it was reported and confirmed, it was technically a crime, but treated more like a misdemeanor and kept quiet, in part, because it was feared that if its prevalence became widely known, public confidence in the prevailing social and authority structures and of the time would (correctly) be severely undermined.

In retrospect, we can see that this would virtually guarantee an environment where abusers thrived, but that genuinely didn't seem to occur to most people back then, and also goes a long way towards explaining why some older ones really don't seem to think it's as big a deal as people nowadays do (i.e., "sin" as opposed to "crime").

In addition to other (and I suspect) darker reasons, the Org has long had a don't-fix-it-if-it-ain't-broken attitude towards 50s social norms, in no small part due to their success during that era (not to mention how strongly reinforced it was by the chaos of the 60s and sheer f**king weirdness of the 70s)... i.e., following the Mayberry model resulted in - and would ensure - "God's blessing".

One thing about ultra-conservative groups is that they never imagine that society could possibly improve, so actual improvements (in laws, societal standards, etc.) are viewed with suspicion and resistance, rather than welcome.

Note: Explaining, not condoning or excusing.

cha ching

Vidiot: :-) Yep, I was there, I remember when, 'some older ones really don't seem to think it's as big a deal as people nowadays do (i.e., "sin" as opposed to "crime").'

Yep, I knew you were just explaining/ not condoning... as I really think people were not aware of the extent child sex abuse existed (maybe more than you even realized, as a lot of people do not even speak about what happened, I know people who haven't, even ex-JWs) People really did not know how much it hurts kids.

That being said...... After all these years, I was recently struck by the simplicity of it all:

Crime is the key word. Child abuse is a crime. Protect other children. Report it to the police.

Should a Priest ,Elder ,Pastor withold a crime from the relevant authorities because of a confidential confessional ?

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