The utter absurdity of the "universal sovereignty issue", chapter 4,786

sir82

So on the JW Broadcast channel, there is a new 4 minute video entitled "Why Does God Permit Suffering". I won't give them free advertising by linking to it, but you'll find it under the "latest videos" section.

It looks like it will be something that will eventually be used in field serve-us as a video to show householders.

Anyway, it gives the illustration of the teacher and a "rebellious student" who says he has a "better way to solve the problem". The infinitely wise teacher allows him to try, he fails, and the teacher is "vindicated".

Other posts on this site demonstrate how inane the illustration really is - it breaks down nearly effortlessly.

Anyway, the video goes on to explain that God allowed "rebellious humans" to continue on because (more or less direct quote) "millions of angels were observing. What would they think if God merely destroyed the rebels immediately?"

Which got me thinking of this potential conversation when a JW is witnessing:

Householder: "My 5 year old daughter just died from leukemia. She spent her last 3 yeas in nearly unending agony and then she died. Why would God allow that to happen?"

JW: "Oh that's so terrible! Probably your pastor told you God needed another angel in heaven, didn't he?"

HH: "Well, no, not exactly..."

JW: "Oh but sometimes they do say that! But that's not the case at all! That would be cruel and heartless of God to do that!"

HH: "Yeah, I guess it would be..."

JW: "Of course! But there is a much more satisfying answer as to why God permits suffering!"

HH: "There is?"

JW: "Yes there is!" Would you like me to tell you what it is?"

HH: "Yes! Tell me why God let my little girl suffer and die!"

JW: "Well, the reason is.."

HH: "Yes?...."

JW: "The reason is,,,"

HH: "Yes?..."

JW: "The reason God let your little girl suffer and die is so that a bunch of angels wouldn't get the wrong idea about God."

HH:

Idiots.

venus

WT would not have ventured into this greatest mistake of all time if they had thought about why Jesus did not teach about Issue of Sovereignty. If such an Issue were existed, Jesus would have used all his superhuman skills to explain this vital subject to his audience giving maximum publicity to it repeating it more than any other subjects.

EverApostate

A father warns his teenage son not to drive their car. The Evil neighbor induces the teenage boy to drive it, who then drives and due to his inexperience, gets into an accident and is badly hurt.

The father, instead of treating his son, allows him to suffer with his wounds for decades

If asked about this, the father says that he has to prove to his neighbors that he was right and his son was wrong and that is why he allows his son to suffer endlessly

How Brilliant!!!

jookbeard

its never made any sense, since the original sin and the ransom, how and why can a called loving god wallow in such a sickening voyeuristic position and watch such unspeakable suffering for 1000's of years disgusts and sickens me all because of a dick waving competition with his adversary, what an evil,perverted,bloodthirsty piece of work, not one single theist has ever satisfactorily explained to me the reason why.

sir82

My "hypothetical conversation" above is not that far off from a real visit I made while in field serve-us 20+ years ago. The householder was grieving over his wife rather than a daughter though.

So I proceeded to explain, in my best JW fashion, the "universal sovereignty" issue.

The guy didn't buy it. At all.

I remember thinking at the time, "why didn't that answer click for him? He's supposed to slap his head and say 'of course!' but that didn't happen?!?!"

Now, I look back (with more than a little shame) and just shake my head at my own arrogance and foolishness. Of course he didn't buy it. It's stupid beyond words.

EverApostate

Angels are far more superior and powerful than humans and do not endure suffering, like humans. And they have every chance to view this Almighty Jah all the time. They why would they doubt his immense power and Sovereignty. What is the need to prove to them at the Expense of mankind’s Suffering ?

This guy Jah is more interested in proving his righteousness to the angels rather than fix mankind’s suffering. What a sickening Egotistical maniac.

Believing this whole story of Universal Sovereignty is utter Foolishness, and I’m ashamed to have believed this nonsense.

Teufel

And yet when members claim they know better than the Watchtower, they are "expelled from the class" so to speak and the rest of the class are told "do not listen to them!".

Magnum

And the JW "universal sovereignty issue" doesn't even address the horrific suffering that occurred for eons in the animal realm before the supposed universal sovereignty issue was even raised. Vast evidence shows that nature has always been brutal.

I wonder what the angels thought when they saw a T. Rex bite a two-foot chunk out of a Triceratops or when they saw a wooly mammoth get stuck in a tar pit and linger in agony for days until it finally expired.

TD

The whole idea is basically the book of Job on steroids, which is pretty macabre when you think about it.

carla

To this day I still cannot wrap my head around what the heck jw's go on about re: sovereignty. I just do not understand what they are even trying to say.

If you go to someone who is already a believer be it a Christian or what have you, someone who believes in a higher power that created the world/universe, etc... then there is no issue about sovereignty is there? they already believe God is The sovereign power in the universe.

If you are talking to an atheist you first must prove there is a God. It has been my experience that is not a topic most jw's like to take on.

To me it is like going around telling people that grass is green, the sky is blue or bears crap in the woods. What is the point?

The utter absurdity of the "universal sovereignty issue", chapter 4,786

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