Comments You Will Not Hear at The 9-28-03 WT Study

by blondie 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M

    Blondie,

    You did it again! Congratulations on another excellent commentary. I may have to attend the meeting this Sunday. I will have a printed copy of your commentary in my un-underlined “tower.” Like you, I have observed:

    The WTS once used as much as two paragraphs to support information. Then it was a footnote directing you to another WTS publication which discusses the point in more detail. Now it is just a flat statement challenging you to disagree with them the only channel between God and humans.

    The WT no longer even attempts to provide support for their statements. This is all a part of the “dumbing down” of the flock.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Pistoff, hi man,
    They remind us to go to meetings, and they are lying in court about the control they have over the congregations.

    Actually, my mother told me recently that if I didn?t go to the meetings that I would die. She must have heard that at the KH. But of course lying to "worldly" people doesn?t count. It is all right to lie to the people they study with so they will get baptized.

    Next time when I will go to a WT study I will use some of your comments and ask the Elder!!!

    Just be cautious, JustHuman. Just say, "Brother BigHead, I was doing research the other day and just happened to run across this in the Watchtower. Can you explain to me why the Watchtower today says the opposite?" with a meek face and a humble heart.

    Gopher

    , how goes it my near neighbor?
    This looks like an attempt to bully the publishers into "fessing up" for unrevealed "sins". What if you have been preaching the Watchtower message and have been failing to find interest? Surely we at the WT Society and our unappealing writing are not to blame. No, it's your own darn fault. You must be doing something wrong, because Jehovah is not working with you. (Another way to rule by fear.)

    Good observations, Gopher. Very typical of an abusive, shame-based group.

    Blondie,you must compile all of your "Comments You Will Not Hear At The WT.Study"into one reference book.These comments are jewels.

    Actually, they need more polishing to qualify for such a thing. But I feel a sense of accomplishment anyway. It has been good for me to work on my skills; it has come in handy at work.

    Ciao, Gadget.

    That?s the way I see more and more happening. They don't have to justify anything anymore because people believe it no matter what. Are they becoming complacent that loyal followers will not question them?

    They have the upper hand, Gadget. Even if you are right about their being wrong, you are presumptuous to point it out. Only God is allowed to point it out.

    Oh Maverick, I too worked in a place that had style books, the federal government. Considering how uniform the WTS wants others to be in the organization, it is amazing how they don?t seem to check up on themselves. I have visited the area where the articles are developed and supposedly there are people to make such checks. But remember this is a place where the light gets brighter and the truth is always changing.

    NewYork44AM

    , it takes someone who has been a JW for many years to have seen the change in support information. I heard an older sister comment that the WTS is "simplifying" the WT articles like they simplified the conventions and the donation arrangement.

    Blondie

  • blondie
    blondie

    Pretty quiet this morning. Is everyone out in field service?

    Blondie

  • wheres caleb?
    wheres caleb?

    Hi Blondie,

    I always enjoy reading your watchtower commentaries. I sometimes wonder if the GB feels qualified to take positions on issues because they are saying it first or they are the only ones bringing this information out. (We came up with it first so it has to be right).

    I had bought into the idea that publications from the past may not be entirely accurate because of ever changing new light. Their position has always been that what they write is divinely inspired so why can't it be used to scrutinize their beliefs.

    I had this experience where a CO had made an unsubstantiated thought and his wife scolded him for not being able to provide proof. I did my own research and found an article in a watchtower, printed in the 70's, that confirmed his thought. His wife felt that it was more appropriate to use an article printed in the 90's and she had found one that she shared with the group.

    I think it is interesting how some of their writings from the past are considered suspect, and yet they will make reference to anything that supports the idea that they are the only true religion.

    Oh well, I just wanted to share that with you. Take care and I look forward to reading more.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Where's Caleb,

    Is the WTS honest about its past? How many JWs realize that until 1943 the WTs felt that Jesus' presence began in 1874 not 1914. Sure the Proclaimers book finally has some of the information, but it is not presented in a way to be enlightening.

    Though the WTS says the WT publications are not inspired and that the GB is not infallible, still if a JW were to contradict what it says, they could be DF'd and labeled an apostate.

    Then remember the flipflop doctrines such as:

    Whether the people in Sodom and Gomorrah will be resurrected, who are the "superior authorities," and should you have an organ transplant.

    1879-1929 Superior authorities are the secular authorities

    1929-1962 Superior authorities are Jesus and Jehovah

    1962 to present Superior authorities are the secular authorities

    up to 1967 Organ transplants--personal decison

    1967 to 1980 Organ transplants--forbidden

    1980 to present Organ transplants--personal decision

    So does the light go from dark to light to dark again? JWs between 1967 and 1980 paid with their lives for the mistaken understanding of the WTS.

    And in the end the real source of authority is the Bible which has not changed in the last 124 years of the WTS existence. There is no new light coming from the Bible. I feel that the WTS has become too much like the Pharisees, Saduccees, scribes of Jesus' day, blind guides and those who followed them went into the same ditch.

    Where's caleb, just keep reading and studying the Bible. If the WTS cannot support what it says clearly from the scriptures, then beware.

    Blondie

  • wheres caleb?
    wheres caleb?

    And in the end the real source of authority is the Bible which has not changed in the last 124 years of the WTS existence. There is no new light coming from the Bible. I feel that the WTS has become too much like the Pharisees, Saduccees, scribes of Jesus' day, blind guides and those who followed them went into the same ditch.

    Where's caleb, just keep reading and studying the Bible. If the WTS cannot support what it says clearly from the scriptures, then beware.

    Thanks Blondie, I agree with you completely.

  • OHappyDay
    OHappyDay

    Blondie, you asked if we were all out in field service this quiet morning. I was. I enjoy field service now that we are encouraged to listen to people more. And use the Bible. Both of these things are potentially dangerous to closeminded Witnesses. My placements are way down because I am not primarily concerned with placing literature, just with talking with people.

    I found this WT Study article to be devoid of spirit, holy or otherwise. Can't we get out of the Old Testament for a while? The whole article mentioned Jesus only once or twice. It had to mention Jesus in the prophecy about Bethlehem, but he was missing in action elsewhere.

    Your critique of the article was devastatingly on target, as usual. I'm trying to hold on because there is nothing else out there that I feel comfortable with. But I'm feeling less and less comfortable with WT dogma as well.

    I'm sure that the prophet Micah was a good guy. But I am a Christian. I want Jesus.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    OHD,

    Your comments are honest and heartfelt -- which, excuse me for saying, seems unusual coming from an active JW.

    You said:

    I'm trying to hold on because there is nothing else out there that I feel comfortable with.
    So in other words, you're hoping that the JW's are the "least bad of all the bad choices"?? Well if you're a Christian (which I don't claim to be -- but work with me here), then go for Christ himself, and not a flawed organization that can't seem to keep its act together. Really if Christ is working for humanity, it would more likely be through individuals or maybe small groups, not large corporate-type "organizations" which are more interested in saving themselves than in helping others.
  • blondie
    blondie

    OhHappyDay, you sound like me the last 2 years I was in the ministry. But then I could no longer direct people to the unloving congregation.

    Can't we get out of the Old Testament for a while?

    Since the WTS is rule-bound like the Pharisees, it is easy to see why the OT appeals to them and not the rule of love NT.

    I figure it is like this, just because I am married to an abusive husband, I don't have to wait until I find a good husband to leave the abusive one.

    The key is in the scriptures not in a group of people.

    Blondie

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    OHD wrote:

    Can't we get out of the Old Testament for a while?

    Hehe, I feel your pain. But the OT has much payoff for the officers of the corporation: Control. It is hard to threaten the faithful with the NT; Jesus is just too forgiving, and even Paul wouldn't disfellowship the ones who disagreed with him.

    The lesson for today was a real stinker, and even worse at the meeting. Once there and in the study, I realized how blatanly the authors IGNORED the fact that Micah was aiming at the LEADERS in Judah; the ones taking the lead were getting speared. But how is it applied? To US, the rank and file.

    Ever notice that every prophecy has a second fulfillment, but NEVER do they apply the ones about LEADERSHIP failure in Israel and Judah to the modern day spiritual Israel; apparently, that it is the only thing that will not ever apply. Hmmm. So, all of the prophecies apply, but never will leadership fail, or need to be called to account by Jah??

    Some real obvious and irksome points in the WT today:

    pp6: Can Micah's wicked contemporaries expect Jehovah's favor? What? Are the leaders of Judah rightly called his contemporaries? Micah was not at all in their class; he was a lowly prophet and they were haughty and wicked ones, according to the lesson.

    pp7: Jehovah will not answer our prayers if we practice sin. That is certainly so if we are living a double life, concealing our wrongdoing while pretending to serve God faithfully. How in the world is concealed sin (by the rank and file) foreshadowed by what the leaders of Judah did in public??? Of course, you know what Mr company man, the WT conductor in my cong, brought up: yep, the internet. So apparently Micah in his wisdom knew that we would be typing away and venting about the lies we are told and gave his prophecy to warn us. Sheesh, what a crappy application.

    More likely, it could foreshadow how the LEADERS, THE GOVERNING BODY AND THE SERVICE DEPT. are skinning the sexually abused sheep, breaking their bones and making legal soup out of them, and using our donated money in the process.

    pp11: some real clinkers here. Attempts to preach are sure to fail utterly if we willfully practice sin. In that case God coult not answer our prayers for strength to do this work. We certainly cannot declare our heavenly Father's judgement messages unless the "spirit of Jehovah" rests upon us. What in the world is this? Did Greenlees and Chitty preach, and were they not successful, and do not many in the know acknowledge that they were homosexual??? Are there not in most congregations people who were very successful who it turns out later are revealed to have been "sinning" for many years? This is such an irrational statement.

    The corollary to it is even more absurd: If we are successful in preaching, it means that we have God's spirit. That statement is patently false.

    pp14: After noting Micah's prophecy and it's sure fulfillment, it says: Surely we should be just as confident that the present wicked system of things will end in the foretold "day of Jehovah." While not comparing themselves directly to Micah, the implication is that the end will come in the time frame that the WT has suggested, thereby begging the comparison to Micah. But remember: they are not a prophet!!!

    This week's dunderheaded comments in my hall:

    "Micah's prophecy applied to the heads of Judah; today we are our own heads, and so it applies to us." (!!) (Try telling an elder that from now on you will be making your own decisions about what to believe, as you are your own head.)

    On pp24, brother i wanna be an elder stated that "willful sin is what this is about; that there are NO GRAY AREAS."

    It was amazing to me that an entire congregation listened to this discussion of LEADERSHIP failure, and never once did they apply it to leadership in the borg; only to the individual witnesses. What kind of paranoia are they trying to inspire in us, by warning at least three times that PRACTICING SIN (never defining it either; is it gross immoral behavior? Is it a young witness feeling guilty about masturbation?) prevents us from being successful in preaching, and God from hearing our prayer. So if we are practicing sin, and pray to god for help to stop, will he then ignore us??

    All the while, the stunningly stupid two witness policy, and the disfellowshiping of whistle blowers is NEVER EVEN thought of by the faithful, never mind the outright lying that the society does through it's lawyers in the sex abuse cases. It is sickening.

    I agree with Gopher; this article also irked me no end.

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