JW's a sect? Comments Please. WARNING-LONG

by lookingnow22 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • lookingnow22
    lookingnow22

    Hello all,

    First off, I want to say that I am very grateful for this place where I can speak whatever’s on my mind. I’ve often been amazed at the role that the WTBTS & GB put themselves into, all the while claiming that they are not promoting their own standards, and understandings. Here’s just a little research I’ve done lately on what it means to be a sect. All quotations come from the 1999 WT Publications CD. I’ll reserve my comments for the end of each section, thus the references are numbered.

    *** Rbi8 Titus 3:10-11 ***
    10 As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; 11 knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning, he being self-condemned.

    First the definitions of a sect, as given by the WTS.

    [1]*** it-2 886 Sect ***
    The Greek word (hai're·sis, from which comes the English word "heresy") thus translated means "choice" (Le 22:18, LXX) or "that which is chosen," hence "a body of men separating themselves from others and following their own tenets [a sect or party]." (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 16)

    [2]*** rs 202 Jehovah's Witnesses ***
    Some define sect to mean a group that has broken away from an established religion. Others apply the term to a group that follows a particular human leader or teacher. The term is usually used in a derogatory way.

    [3]*** w98 3/15 10-11 Slaves of Men or Servants of God? ***
    Dangers of Following Men
    A "sect" has been defined as "a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine or to a leader." Similarly, those belonging to a "cult" have "great devotion to a person, idea, or thing." Actually, the members of any religious group who strongly adhere to human leaders and their ideas are in danger of becoming slaves of men. A strong leader-oriented relationship can lead to an unhealthy emotional and spiritual dependency. The danger may be compounded when a person is reared in a sectarian atmosphere from childhood.

    [4]*** g88 1/8 26 Is Sectarian Worship Acceptable to God? ***
    The word "sect" is here translated from the Greek word hai're·sis, meaning "a choice," that is, "the choice of an opinion contrary to that usually received." Thus, a "sect" is a group or a body of people that chooses to follow a course or belief different from what is commonly accepted.

    COMMENTS
    [1] – “a body of men separating themselves”, I can’t help but think of the GB at this phrase.
    [2] – In the early 20th century the JW’s in many ways worshipped Rutherford.
    [3] – This one’s great. “Adhering to a distinctive doctrine”, can anyone say 1914? How about the 144,000? The JW’s are constantly being told to “strongly adhere” to the GB’s teachings. And I can personally vouch for the increased danger of being indoctrinated from childhood.
    [4] – Oh my goodness. They seriously say that to be a sect means to believe “different from what is commonly accepted”.

    Next the advice given by the WTS to investigate your religion.

    [5]*** w98 3/15 10-11 Slaves of Men or Servants of God? ***
    Those who have such concerns about a religion need reliable information. Some may have been told that the Witnesses belong to a religious organization that enslaves its members, exercises authoritarian control over them, unduly restricts their freedom, and throws them out of step with society as a whole.
    Jehovah's Witnesses know that these concerns are unwarranted. Therefore, they invite you to check for yourself. After careful consideration, draw your own conclusions. Are the Witnesses servants of God, as they claim, or actually slaves of men?

    [6]*** g88 1/8 27 Is Sectarian Worship Acceptable to God? ***
    What You Should Do
    True Christianity is not a sect, nor does it exist in divisions. If you belong to a church, then it behooves you to examine carefully what your church teaches and what "fruits" its members produce. Are these wholly based on and in harmony with the Bible? Or could it be that your church has also chosen a course different from what the Bible teaches, thus making it a sect? A diligent study of the Bible is the only way to know for sure.

    COMMENTS
    [5] – “Check for yourself…draw your own conclusions”, of course be D/F and shunned by all of your friends and family if you come to conclusions different than theirs.
    [6] – “Examine carefully what your church teaches and what ‘fruits’ its members produce”. Why thank you, I think I will. As for their fruits, much has come to light of these recently.

    Now the denials, and rationalizations used by the WTS.

    [7]*** rs 202 Jehovah's Witnesses ***
    Jehovah's Witnesses are not an offshoot of some church but include persons from all walks of life and from many religious backgrounds. They do not look to any human, but rather to Jesus Christ, as their leader.

    [8]*** jv 117 9 Jehovah's Word Keeps Moving Speedily (1976-1992) ***
    From the 1870's down to the present, certain men have made outstanding contributions to the advancement of the Kingdom work, men such as Charles T. Russell, Joseph F. Rutherford, Nathan H. Knorr, and Frederick W. Franz, as well as others who have served as members of the Governing Body. But in no way have Jehovah's Witnesses become a sect built around the personalities of any of these men. Instead, they have but one leader, "the Christ." (Matt. 23:10) He is the Head of these organized Witnesses of Jehovah, the one to whom "all authority has been given" for directing this work "all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." (Matt. 28:18-20) They are determined to submit to Christ's headship, keep close to God's Word, and cooperate with the leading of the holy spirit, that they may continue moving ahead in the worship of the only true God and in proving themselves to be "a people peculiarly his own, zealous for fine works."-Titus 2:14.

    [9]*** w99 7/15 16 Anchored by Hope, Impelled by Love ***
    4 Far from discouraging us, however, opposition should strengthen our conviction that we are practicing true Christianity. (Matthew 5:11, 12) The early Christians were accused of being a seditious sect, and they were "spoken against" everywhere. (Acts 24:5; 28:22) But the apostle Peter reassured his fellow believers, writing: "Beloved ones, do not be puzzled at the burning among you, which is happening to you for a trial, as though a strange thing were befalling you. On the contrary, go on rejoicing forasmuch as you are sharers in the sufferings of the Christ, that you may rejoice and be overjoyed also during the revelation of his glory." (1 Peter 4:12, 13) Similarly, a member of the first-century governing body wrote: "Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you meet with various trials, knowing as you do that this tested quality of your faith works out endurance. But let endurance have its work complete, that you may be complete and sound in all respects, not lacking in anything." (James 1:2-4)

    COMMENTS
    [7] – Ok.
    [8] – Ok.
    [9] – I’ve always gotten angry after reading things like this. “How do I know this is the true religion, and not just a sect?” “Because people say that it isn’t the true religion, and is a sect. And you should be joyful, …damit.”

    Finally what I feel the truth of the WTS is based on their own statements.

    [10]*** pe 195 23 God's Visible Organization ***
    At the headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses in Brooklyn, New York, there is a governing body of older Christian men from various parts of the earth who give the needed oversight to the worldwide activities of God's people. This governing body is made up of members of "the faithful and discreet slave." It serves as a spokesman for that faithful "slave."

    [11]*** w97 6/1 14 A Secret Christians Dare Not Keep! ***
    The slave class strives to avoid being dogmatic. It is not too proud to admit that as of now it cannot answer every question, keeping Proverbs 4:18 clearly in mind. But how thrilling to know that Jehovah, in his own due time and in his own way, will continue to reveal his secrets as to his purposes! Never should we become impatient with Jehovah's arrangement, indiscreetly trying to rush ahead of the Revealer of secrets. How reassuring it is to know that the channel Jehovah is using today does not do so! It is both faithful and discreet.

    [12]*** w94 10/1 8 The Bible-A Book Meant to Be Understood ***
    All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.

    [13]*** w73 7/1 402 Praise Jehovah with His People ***
    4 Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God's holy spirit or active force. (Zech. 4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book.

    [14]*** w73 7/1 402 Praise Jehovah with His People ***
    How very much true Christians appreciate associating with the only organization on earth that understands the "deep things of God"!

    [15]*** w81 2/15 19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible? ***
    Jesus' disciples wrote many letters to Christian congregations, to persons who were already in "the way of the truth." (2 Pet. 2:2) But nowhere do we read that those brothers first, in a skeptical frame of mind, checked the Scriptures to make certain that those letters had Scriptural backing, that the writers really knew what they were talking about... We should have confidence in the channel God is using... No question about it. We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the "faithful and discreet slave" organization.

    [16]*** w81 12/1 27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***
    But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.

    [17]*** w83 3/1 25 What Is Our Position Toward Opposers of the Truth? ***
    They may also question the need for an organization to direct the minds of God's people. Their view is, God's spirit can direct individuals without some central, organized body of men giving direction. They will declare that all one needs to do is to read the Bible.

    [18]*** w81 8/15 28-9 Serving Jehovah "Shoulder to Shoulder" ***
    They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago

    [19]*** w73 8/1 460 Cultivating Friendship with God ***
    Yes, we should be deeply appreciative of all the fine spiritual food that "the faithful and discreet slave" class has been providing through The Watchtower, now for ninety-four years.

    [20]*** w81 8/15 28 Serving Jehovah "Shoulder to Shoulder" ***
    It has required our giving proper recognition to the one organization that Jehovah is using in the earth today, and this by our associating with the "faithful and discreet slave." It has required meekness, in our "carefully examining" God's Word with the aid of that 'slave's' publications, in order to fortify our faith.

    [21]*** w98 7/15 13 Beware of a Lack of Faith ***
    When the slave class offers counsel on the need to be selective in our choice of music and entertainment, and so forth, do we gratefully accept it and make adjustments

    [22]*** w98 10/15 16 Jerusalem-Is It 'Above Your Chief Cause for Rejoicing'? ***
    From time to time, this journal has identified unscriptural conduct that would disqualify a person from remaining a part of God's organization. In 1973, for example, Jehovah's people came to understand fully that drug abuse and the use of tobacco are serious sins. To pursue a godly course, we must "cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit." (2 Corinthians 7:1)

    COMMENTS
    [10] - This is their claim, that these specific men, the governing body, are the faithful and discreet slave.
    [11] - JW's are ordered to stay behind the FDS. They are Jehovah's word.
    [12],[13],[14],[15] - Truth and Understanding of God only through the WTS.
    [16],[17],[18],[19],[20] – The GB teaches that God’s word the Bible is not enough for us to be true Christians. All must study WTS publications and teachings for salvation.
    [21],[22] - Must follow FDS understandings, and judgements on lifestyles, and conduct.

    I do not question the role that the scriptures put forth for the true “faithful and discreet slave”, but the WTS has positioned it’s fleshly “Governing Body” as the only way for people to attain salvation, or for that matter true happiness. They have governed, to the minutest detail, the lives of their followers, forcing them to conform to their every command. Although the WTS’s requirements may not always be termed commands, they are always laced with underhanded threats of dire consequences if disobeyed. So in my humble and inexperienced opinion, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and thus Jehovah’s Witnesses, are a sect.

    Whoa, I was really long winded with all of that. Thanks for your patience, and please give me your comments, agreeing, opposing, or whatever else.

    looking

  • XJWBill
    XJWBill

    Not having time for a long analysis, here are some brief thoughts:

    Denomination, sect, cult all basically denote a group different from a larger group. But we have to look at the connotation of the words, also; they are not interchangeable.

    The larger group in question here is Christian churches.

    I would say those churches that are mainly in agreement with historic Christian teachings would be called denominations; e.g., Roman Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc.

    I would say that those churches that are heterodox, significantly deviating from historic Christian beliefs in some areas, are sects; e.g., JW's, Christian Science, Mormons, etc.

    I would say that "cult" carries with it the idea of both heterodoxy and obsessiveness to the point where members are cut off from all reality, independent behavior, and normal social relations; e.g., David Koresh and followers, Jim Jones and company, etc.

    In my book, JW's are definitely a sect, but not quite a cult--semi-cult, maybe, but they still go out for beer and pizza. Or they did when I was there. I'm sure some will disagree--fire away!

    Bill

    "If we all loved one another as much as we say we love God, I reckon there wouldn't be as much meanness in the world as there is."--from the movie Resurrection (1979)

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    According to a sociology book that I read a few years ago, religions
    are divided into six categories, ranging from mainstream denominations
    to cults. Sects show up in category 5, between established sects and
    cults.

    Each category is marked by several characteristics. As I recall, sects
    are marked by the following features:
    - Separation from the outside world, rather than participation
    - Belief that the end of the world is imminent
    - Their main concern is internal, with their own well being as
    the focus, rather than the improvement of society as a whole

    There are also some other characteristics that I forget.

    The book specifically lists Jehovah's Witnesses as an example of a
    sect. So, not only are JW's a sect, but they are a textbook example.

    The book also points out that sects grow well in territories where
    there is either economic deprivation, or rapid social mobility. This
    explains their growth in eastern Europe and Africa, as well as their
    slow recent performance in the western world.

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Lookingnow22,

    thanks for your good post. A lot of
    carefull and logical research..."let them say with their
    own words " and what statements ! This post will be kept
    in my files...they're getting longer and longer.

    Agape, J.C. MacHislopp

    P.S. I don't know how WTS can face n° 6:

    "6]*** g88 1/8 27 Is Sectarian Worship Acceptable to God? ***
    What You Should Do
    True Christianity is not a sect, nor does it exist in divisions. If you belong to a church, then it behooves you to examine carefully what your church teaches and what "fruits" its members produce. Are these wholly based on and in harmony with the Bible? Or could it be that your church has also chosen a course different from what the Bible teaches, thus making it a sect? A diligent study of the Bible is the only way to know for sure."

  • larc
    larc

    I am glad this subject was brought up. I have read and heard many people call the Witnesses a cult. I have thought about this a lot, even though I have not done a formal study of the issue. Based, on my causual reading and my own experience, I would agree with the assessment here. I think they are best described and a sect or as a high control religion.

  • Jang
    Jang

    Larc, they step further than just a sect or high control religion ....

    The were once in that catagory ..... but even the secular cult watchers now put them in the cult class.

    On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being highest they are rated around 7 for destructiveness.

    Read this to give you some idea of what I am talking about:
    http://www.caic.org.au/general/totalism.htm

    JanG

  • professor
    professor

    This article is a great resource on how several sects, including the JW's sprung from the 2nd adventist movement via C.T. Russell:

    * http://www.premier1.net/~raines/offshoot.html

    It's great reading!

    (senior member wahoo)

  • ladonna
    ladonna

    If Jw's were not a sect why would so many of their members who leave be shunned just out of freedom of choice?

    That in itself is the hallmark of a sect not to mention the mind control that goes into making one a 'spiritually' strong witness.

    To be 'spiritually strong' by the JW standards means you have to shun humanity and turn a blind eye to child abuse...ect ect.....

    That IS a sect.

    Ana

  • Jang
    Jang

    Ladonna, a sect is a "section" within the Christian church. A cult is more descriptive of the WTS.

    You can define a cult as: Any group which has a pyramid type authoritarian leadership structure with all teaching and guidance coming from the person/persons at the top. The group will claim to be the only way to God; Nirvana; Paradise; Ultimate Reality; Full Potential, Way to Happiness etc, and will use thought reform or mind control techniques to gain control and keep their members.

    If we look at Steven Hassans B.I.T.E model we can see the WTS even more clearly:

    Behaviour Control - The control of an individual’s physical reality. This can include control of where he lives, what he eats, his clothing, sleep, job, rituals etc. This is why most cults have a stringent schedule for members. There is always something to do in destructive cults. Each cult has its own distinctive set of behaviours that bind it together. This control is so powerful that the cult member will actually participate in their own punishment and come to believe he actually deserves it! No one can command a person’s thoughts but IF YOU CAN CONTROL BEHAVIOUR THEN HEARTS AND MINDS WILL FOLLOW.

    ** Tight control of behavior secures the leaders' position of authority and importance.

    ** The behavior control impresses members and outsiders to view the group as especially spiritual or successful.

    ** The leaders link the required behavior to their special "revelation" of a text of scripture. However the required behaviors are usually superficial controls, affecting appearances and outward activity rather than inward character. These can include grooming, daily activities, career choices, clothing, specific technology, posture, speech mannerisms, food choices, recreation, education, even decisions about marriage, sex and children. (They usually do not deter moral sin.)

    ** If a person does not conform, he may be urged to become more like an older group member; to follow the leaders' "example".

    ** OBEDIENCE TO THE HUMAN LEADERS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSON TO LEARN.

    ** The leaders cannot totally control one's inner thoughts, but if they can command behavior, hearts and minds will usually follow.

    ** The behavior control isolates the members from society even more effectively.

    Information Control- The control of the individuals information sources Deny a person the information needed to make a sound judgment and he will be incapable of doing so. People are trapped in cults because they are denied both the access to the critical information they need to assess their situation. The psychological chains on their minds are just as powerful as if they were locked away physically from society. So strong is this psychological process they also lack the properly functioning internal mechanism to process any critical information placed in front of them

    ** Important information which is available to the general public is withheld from members and potential members.

    ** Deception is the basic feature of all cult recruitment. It is also what keeps people inside cults.

    ** Information is one of the best weapons against cults.

    ** In cults information about the cult's history, purposes, doctrines, financial disclosures, methods of dealing with problems, counseling, training, and discipline for offenses are kept as confidentail as possible.

    ** Only those members with trusted status are allowed inside information.

    Thought Control- The control of an individual’s thought processes The indoctrination of members so thoroughly that they will manipulate their own thought processes. The ideology is internalised as “the truth”. Incoming information is filtered through the beliefs which also regulates how this information is thought about.

    The cult has it’s own language which further regulates how a person thinks. This puts a great barrier between cult members and outsiders.

    Another form of control is “thought stopping” techniques. This can take many forms: chanting, meditating, singing, humming, tongues (some even pay money to learn it), concentrated praying, etc. The use of these techniques short-circuits the persons’ ability to test reality. The person can only think positive thoughts about the group. If there is a problem the member assumes responsibility and works harder.

    ** Truth" and reality are distorted for those inside the group by subtly changing the definitions of common terms with new meanings through the use of code words, cliches, and slogans.

    ** Different words make the members feel special and separate from outsiders.

    ** These different words confuse outsiders who want to understand what the group believes and talks about.

    ** The change in definitions of significant words keeps even the members from understanding their own beliefs.

    ** Leaders of cults repress questions by conditioning their members to employ "thought-stopping" statements, prayers, hymns, Bible verses, mantras, tongues or rituals to drown out doubt, questions, anxiety or uncertainty. "I can't think about that." "How can you question (the leaders) after all they have done?" etc. The intention is to stop questions regarding the system or leaders.

    ** The word "faith" is employed in a negative sense. Members are conditioned to view "faith" in terms of blind submission to the leaders, rather than positive certainity in God's love.

    ** Members are conditioned to feel guilty for any curiosity about what is going on within the group; curiosity is a lack of faith. (Therefore, even after some people leave a mind control group, they may be afraid to examine information which explains the background of their old belief system.)

    ** Typically, the word "grace" has a different meaning from the Biblical use. The "God" of the group is also different from the God of the Bible. God is defined by, and eventually becomes the group.

    Emotional Control - The control of the individuals emotional life This manipulates a person’s range of feelings. Guilt and fear are used to keep control. Cult members cannot see the control by guilt and like other abuse victims are conditioned to blame themselves when things are wrong, even grateful when a leader points our their transgressions.

    Fear is used to manipulate two ways. The first is to create an outside enemy (we vs them) who is persecuting you. The second is the fear of punishment by the leaders if you are not “good enough.” Being “good enough” is following the ideology perfectly. The most powerful emotional control is phobia indoctrination. This can give the person a panic reaction at the very thought of leaving the group. It is almost impossible to conceive that there is any life outside the group. There is no physical gun held to their heads but the psychological gun is just as if not more powerful.

    ** Guilt, fear and shame are projected onto the members, prompting blame toward themselves for their depression, lack of understanding, anxiety, or inability to cope, rather than examining the leaders, the group's policies, history, doctrines, scandals, and at times, even crimes.

    ** Phobic attitudes or behaviors are sometimes noticeable when attempts are made to converse with members regarding their belief in the group or its leaders.

    ** Fear, anger, rage or repetitious statements which only go in circles keep the members from thinking through to any rational conclusions.

    ** Fear of confrontation with family is common, resulting in very few people being rescued.

    JanG

  • JT
    JT

    JANG

    THANKS FOR THE POST

    JAMES

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