Evolution - A Conversation with Alex Williams

by cofty 62 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Earnest

    cofty, I have to say I found SBF's posts to be interesting and, in a discussion on evolution, quite relevant if consciousness distinguishes man from his predecessors.

    What is of further interest is that Neanderthals also show evidence of consciousness (painting, jewellery, control of fire). What to make of that is anybody's guess.

  • LeeT

    Slimboyfat (and others)

    Presumably Russell elaborated on the subject elsewhere.

    See "The Bible Versus Evolution Theory", WTBTS, 1898


  • dubstepped

    Alex didn't last very long before melting down, lol. Perhaps his god was in the privy while all of these things were going on that man has found? Nice work again Cofty.

  • Alex Williams
    Alex Williams

    There was nothing more to say,I presented the probability odds based on scientific minds

    of evolution vs creation .I don't have to prove I'm right the creation itself testify to Jehovah's eternal power.

  • slimboyfat

    Thanks LeeT, actually I think I’ve read that booklet in the past, but I can’t remember much about it now. Except I have a vague recollection that, by the term “evolution”, the early Bible Students often understood “social progress” more than biological adaptation and speciation. So they seemed to spend an awful lot of time attempting to disprove “evolution” by showing that society is getting worse rather than better. They also had this fixation with the idea that ancient humans were more intelligent than modern humans because they were closer to perfection than we are. This fact was said to disprove evolution because, so the reasoning goes, if evolution is true then modern humans should be smarter than ancient humans. (Not necessarily true from a current scientific perspective, as I understand it, because humans could evolve to be dumber as well as smarter, but that was the logic they used) It’s interesting how the discussion changes over the decades, and the meanings of the words in the debate evolve.

    Well thanks Earnest, I thought I had made respectful and relevant comments on the thread, and was pleased to see peacefulpete around here again. When Cofty interrupted my own threads on visiting churches it was often just to say “get a grip” or “get another hobby” rather than contribute to the topic: a somewhat lower level of engagement or respect than he finds from me. So what’s new? I’ve come to realise there’s no point waiting for Cofty to engage substantive philosophical issues because realistically it’s never going to happen. I think Doug made a good point about studying Watchtower topics, such as creation and chronology, to understand their methodology rather than the subjects themselves. I find myself approaching topics that way. Apart from the divine name issue, which it do find very interesting researching for its own sake.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason


    How does creation "testify to Jehovah's eternal power?"

    It could just as easily testify that dozens of gods were involved.

    Is proof decided by subjective, emotive opinion?

    So this "eternal power" spoke and suddenly there was "something" when previously there was nothing. Is that more reasonable than science?

    Evolution is seen today in the constant changes in bacteria and viruses, causing science to constantly develop new tools to combat them. This is making mankind today's greatest influence on evolution.


  • LeeT


    Do you think that Noah took on board the Ark all the species (groups of animals capable of producing fertile offspring) which currently exist? How do they fit?

    Do you think he took on board just a few representatives of the Biblical 'kinds' (baramins) and they speciated to create our current biodiversity after the flood?

    The WT says that pre-fall animals were vegetarian. Coprolites are fossilised turds. Many coprolites contain bone fragments as the animals that pooped them had been eating meat. Are these all post-fall? If so, can you explain the rapid fossilisation and how it is they occur in layers conventionally dated to well over 200m years old? Are you about to explain it as an artefact of flood geology?

  • smiddy3


    How does creation "testify to Jehovah's eternal power?"

    It could just as easily testify that dozens of gods were involved.

    Gen.1: 26 "And God went on to say "let US make man in OUR image according to OUR LIKENESS" ?

    More than one God involved ?

    just quoting Scripture .

  • punkofnice
    Alex Trolliams - There was nothing more to say

    Well. There's a thing! Looks like a goodbye from me and goodbye from him 2 Ronnies situatoin!

  • pale.emperor

    Was that it from the JW corner? Alex lasted 3 posts?

    Almost feel sorry for him. That was a terrible attempt.

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