The Scripture They Ignore, Ignore, Ignore... (page 5)

A Paduan

The preconceived ideas of jwism steer their understanding of scripture, self- justifying the desire of righteousness, while marginalising the fear of condemnation as best they are personally able - and as they have much of this thought, more is given.

The delusion often only relies on the misunderstanding of a single word, to favour existing bias. - in this case, "to judge". Jws already make judgement, continually, but consider the idea of "judge" to mean "deliver judgement".

Such confusion is essential for the 'ism' of the religion.

proplog2

Metatron:

You have said several times:

While Jesus spoke about selectivity, taking his words to exclude 99.9% plus of the human race is absurd,

Let's look at that statement.

Yes indeed Jesus declared not that a majority would survive the coming destruction but that a "select" few would be spared. Few vs many. Do you have a problem with understanding that?

Matthew 7:13-14

13 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

Matthew 22:14

14 "For there are many invited, but few chosen."

Luke 13:23-24

23 Now a certain man said to him: "Lord, are those who are being saved few?" He said to them: 24 "Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell YOU, will seek to get in but will not be able,

So, does our disagreement come down to how we define Many & Few? Would you say that 51% according to the Bible are going to be destroyed and 49% will be saved? Maybe 52% destroyed 48% saved? How about 75% Destroyed and 25% saved. Are you squirming? At what point is the difference between Many and Few intolerable? Hold onto that idea a second....

Now Metatron: Do you think that it is out of Jehovah's biblical character to destroy 99.9% of the people and save only one tenth of a percent? I personally don't believe in the World Wide Flood but that is the model Jesus used in describing the impact of the Great Tribulation. Jehovah doesn't have a good reputation for tolerance. Maybe you need to re-evaluate your "nice" image of Jesus too!

It seems Jehovah was back to his judgemental tricks right after Jesus left. Remember Ananias & Saphira? They were killed for lying about how much they got when they sold their property.

You can condemn (judge) JW's. But then you ought to judge their God and his Son. They seem to be slightly on the blood-thirsty side. You can't accuse JW's of not getting this right. Your argument ought to be against the Bible.

Apparently JW's aren't so absurd in their understanding of Jehovah's willingness to kill large numbers of people HE judges.

ashitaka

Don't expect me to respond to personal attacks.

How noble. LOL

By saying that, you responded. Gotchya! LOL

ash

Happythoughts

The Bible declares: "It is Jehovah your God you must worship and it is to him alone you must render sacred service." This should be our desire, even if it mean respectfully disagreeing with men appointed by Jehovah--for no less an authority than the Apostle Peter erred on one occasion (and interestingly, on the issue of who & what Jehovah found acceptable) and was corrected.

I for one hope to be accepted by God's people for who I am. If not, then God's people have ceased becoming subjects and have instead become the judge. That is a very dangerous position to be in: to presume to speak for Jehovah on matters of judgment and favor. I see so much of that today, if not explicityly than in attitudes. Can't we be humble people, love Jehovah and each other and our neighbors, and leave the rest to the wonderful God we worship?

metatron

More judgemental nonsense.

First, as the Watchtower admits, Jesus used hyperbole. Once you understand that, things like this ( and hellfire too)

fall into place more neatly. Did the ungrateful slave really own more money than existed in the Roman Empre?

AND.... even if we accepted the EXTREME notion that God wants to kill 99.9 plus % of the human race,

Where the h*ll do Witnesses get off making their 'knee- jerk' judgements about others? Who gives them

the right to utter such nonsense - especially in light of 120 years worth of false prophecy?

The context of 'worry about the splinter in your own eye' fits the situation here rather well.

metatron

A Paduan

You can condemn (judge) JW's. But then you ought to judge their God and his Son. They seem to be slightly on the blood-thirsty side. You can't accuse JW's of not getting this right. Your argument ought to be against the Bible.

I do make judgements about their god - but it is they that make him - " without Him was nothing made that was made " - an imaginary, and as you say, seemingly blood thirsty god.

Against the bible? - My argument is against their mind.

DJ

Hi proplog2

I have to disagree with you as well. Even the jw's themselves or maybe the ones who pay attention to what is being taught......admit that they are BRINGING JUDGEMENT as locusts in Rev. They judge who is a sheep and who is a goat......etc.. They couldn't be much more judgmental. Prisca made a valid point as well. The wt calls itself the mouthpiece of God. They do not physically kill in wars, that is true but they HATE and hate is murder according to Christ. That religion is loveLESS.

As far as the scriptures you are mentioning....read them IN CONTEXT. Love is the narrow gate in Matthew 6. There are many religions who teach that they can earn salvation by obeying certain rules and that it is not the FREE GIFT of God thru Christ. The jw's are only one of them. They lip serve salvation by faith just as they lip serve most of the bible. They may be sincere but they are sincerely wrong. I have come across many judgmental people in religions in my life in many denominations but to say that the jw religion is non judgmental is totally ludicrous. They admit to being judges by calling themselves a "plague who brings judgment". Pay attention man!

proplog2

DJ:

I think I made it quite clear that "judging" is a function of life itself. When a person has good judgement it means that they skillfully apply criteria in the decision process.

When Jesus counseled against "judging" I hope he meant the tendency to judge without the pertinent facts.

Metatron is himself passing judgement on JW's. His use of a bunch of half-baked notions to bad-mouth JW's betrays a mean spirit.

Compared to Budhists JW's and all Christians need to moderate their judgemental attitude. I think JW's pretty much are an example of what you would expect from Christ followers.

proplog2

Metatron:

OK. You are willing to at least concede that Jehovah may like to destroy 99.9% of the people. I have to admit that when I did a search on "99.9%" in the Watchtower index it comes up a little too much. I prefer to think that in the thousand year judgement day that the vast majority will be saved. I also believe that Revelation makes it clear that those who die from the "long-sword" at Armageddon will be resurrected.

But then you bring up 120 years of false prophecies. You've got to do better than that. There are close to 2000 years of false prophecies. The 1st century Christians racked up a few false hopes themselves. Jesus hasn't come as soon as he led people to believe. Seems like it goes with the territory.

DanTheMan

I think JW's pretty much are an example of what you would expect from Christ followers.

Christ's followers from the pharisaical Paulian school, that is.

The Scripture They Ignore, Ignore, Ignore...

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