Could Science Disprove Sectarianism?

by metatron 29 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  metatron

  Religious claims are commonly unverifiable. Everybody and anybody can claim that they : 1) are God's True People

  and 2) have God's Exclusive Favor.

  However, various scientists around the world are testing the idea that prayer can heal. Some have gotten solid statistical results

  and some don't (Mayo Clinic). Like any emerging medical procedure, this will have to be hashed out.

  Some of these tests suggest that the healing has no association with SECTARIAN DIFFERENCES! Buddhists pray

  for Christians, Catholics pray for Protestants, etc.

  What a MARVELOUS finding - if it ever can be confirmed! What would this tell us about the Divine nature?

  - that God only cares about love - that all the rest is nonsense! That consciousness is a primary phenomena.

  That we are all brothers and sisters on this planet.

  Of course, the Watchtower MUST agree with skeptics and atheists here - they can't have Catholics praying to

  God and being favored! And certainly not the Virgin Mary!

  metatron
• 

  nilfun

  This reminds me of the time when I was lying in a hospital bed - hurting, alone, and crying. A nun came into the room and asked me if I would like her to pray for me. I thought, "Why not?" and gave her a tearful nod in the affirmative. She prayed and made the sign of the cross on my forehead (using a bit of holy water) and I immediately felt a sense of warmth, relief and well-being flood through my body. I don't think it was a miracle healing(?) but when she prayed, something happened to me in that hospital room.

  Anyway, far from scientific evidence, but I try to keep an open mind about these things.
• 

  Perry

  Interesting metatron,

  Is their a web-site with more detail about the tests?
• 

  LittleToe

  God only cares about love - that all the rest is nonsense...
  ...That we are all brothers and sisters on this planet.

  I think you stated the facts as I see them.
• 

  Duncan

  Interesting topic, Metatron.

  In a similar vein, I remember reading somewhere, can't remember where now - a magazine or newspaper article, where the writer was arguing that there was no need for such a statistical-based exercise to be undertaken on the healing power of prayer.

  In the UK, for literally hundreds of years, MILLIONS of church-goers have prayed, relentlessly, week-in week-out, for the health and well being of the Sovereign and the Royal Family. It's part of the Church of England's Sunday morning ritual.

  If there was even the TINIEST quantum of objective benefit in praying for someone, then, given the simply COLOSSAL amount of "prayer resource" directed at them, the British Royal Family, over the generations ought to have been the healthiest, fittest, most-disease-free, most absolutely tip-top specimens of humanity ever to walk the earth.

  Sadly, history has shown that they sicken and die, like everyone (even if in considerably more comfort and luxury).

  Gawd save yer majesty!

  Duncan
• 

  SixofNine

  Just think what might happen if all those billions of people who pray in thanks for their food 3 times a day, instead pleaded with god to feed the hungry 3 times a day.

  Do those same people say thanks for air and water 3 times per day? Why not? Every bit as basic for life as food. But not something that is denied anyone, like food is.
• 

  metatron

  Well, the Queen Mum did OK!

  more research is needed - I think prayer can make things worse if it isn't done right.

  Many mystical types say if you pray repeatedly out of deep need - without visualizing the nice stuff you want

  you may end up with the things you're trying to avoid.

  metatron
• 

  Perry

  However, various scientists around the world are testing the idea that prayer can heal. Some have gotten solid statistical results

  Hi metatron,

  Do you have any sources to support this claim?

  Perry
• 

  SixofNine

  Here's one Perry. Short on details and quantification though.

  A randomized, controlled trial of the effects of remote, intercessory prayer on outcomes in patients admitted to the coronary care unit.

  Harris WS, Gowda M, Kolb JW, Strychacz CP, Vacek JL, Jones PG, Forker A, O'Keefe JH, McCallister BD

  Arch Intern Med 1999 Oct 25;159(19):2273-8 Mid America Heart Institute, Saint Luke's Hospital, Kansas City, MO, USA.

  Intercessory prayer (praying for others) has been a common response to sickness for millennia, but it has received little scientific attention. The positive findings of a previous controlled trial of intercessory prayer have yet to be replicated. OBJECTIVE: To determine whether remote, intercessory prayer for hospitalized, cardiac patients will reduce overall adverse events and length of stay. DESIGN: Randomized, controlled, double-blind, prospective, parallel-group trial. SETTING: Private, university-associated hospital. PATIENTS: Nine hundred ninety consecutive patients who were newly admitted to the coronary care unit (CCU). INTERVENTION: At the time of admission, patients were randomized to receive remote, intercessory prayer (prayer group) or not (usual care group). The first names of patients in the prayer group were given to a team of outside intercessors who prayed for them daily for 4 weeks. Patients were unaware that they were being prayed for, and the intercessors did not know and never met the patients. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The medical course from CCU admission to hospital discharge was summarized in a CCU course score derived from blinded, retrospective chart review. RESULTS: Compared with the usual care group (n = 524), the prayer group (n = 466) had lower mean +/- SEM weighted (6.35 +/- 0.26 vs 7.13 +/- 0.27; P=.04) and unweighted (2.7 +/- 0.1 vs > 3.0 +/- 0.1; P=.04) CCU course scores. Lengths of CCU and hospital stays were not different. CONCLUSIONS: Remote, intercessory prayer was associated with lower CCU course scores. This result suggests that prayer may be an effective adjunct to standard medical care.
• 

  frenchbabyface

  METATRON : … And certainly not the Virgin Mary!

  And yes …
  
  NILFUN : That’s Love ((( ))) warmth (very) … ONLY LOVE THE REAL ONE
  
  DUNCAN : where the writer was arguing that there was no need for such a statistical-based exercise to be undertaken on the healing power of prayer

  … the British Royal Family … they sicken and die, like everyone (even …
  
  SIXOFNINE : billions of people who pray in thanks for their food 3 times a day, instead pleaded with god to feed the hungry 3 times a day AMEN !

  to me I feel like it's more about : ONLY LOVE THE REAL ONE (MAYBE DONE WITH A SYMBOLIQUE GESTURE - WHICH TOUCHED THE PSYCHOLOGIE)