Baker backed by UK court.

by waton 48 Replies latest social current

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I can see that the verdict is correct, the baker would equally have been within his rights to refuse to produce a cake with a Homophobic or Racist slogan on it.

    I think the verdict though raises certain questions, is every purveyor of a service, allowed to refuse service on the basis of his/her own beliefs or prejudices ? The Printer who does not like the content of a particular work, just as one example ?

    This verdict could end up by the back door further restricting freedom of speech, which is already restrained in Law sufficiently in my view.

    What rather stinks about this case was that it was funded by The Christian Institute, a Charity, why would they spend their funds this way ?

  • snugglebunny
    snugglebunny

    How about visiting a gay baker and asking for an iced slogan stating that Sodomy is a mortal sin?

    This whole thing has nothing to do with gay rights at all but everything to do with freedom of conscience.

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    I think the verdict though raises certain questions, is every purveyor of a service, allowed to refuse service on the basis of his/her own beliefs or prejudices ? - I think it may depend on the circumstances.

    For instance, imagine a huge business such as McDonalds were celebrating gay rights and introduced the McGayburger for a limited period. An employee cannot refuse to serve this to customers who order it because the employee is working for someone else.

    But this pro-gay marriage wedding cake row is different - the baker owns his cake business - he's the boss. If he doesn't want to serve a customer, he doesn't have to. Assuming he owns the premises, he can order anyone to leave his shop.

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe
    If he doesn't want to serve a customer, he doesn't have to. Assuming he owns the premises, he can order anyone to leave his shop.

    Not under British law he can't. If he tells them to leave because they are gay, Muslim, disabled etc he could be found guilty of discrimination or a hate offence.

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    If he tells them to leave because they are gay, Muslim, disabled etc he could be found guilty of discrimination or a hate offence - if a person owns the premises, he/she can order members of the public off those premises, without giving a reason.

  • Simon
    Simon

    The laws are never applied equally. Discrimination by muslims is never challenged for instance. If they laws aren't pursued equally to all then they should be applied to none and anyone running a business should absolutely have the choice who they do business with just as you have the choice of who comes into your home.

    Market forced would correct any discrimination.

    (apart from standards over access for disabilities which require physical design to be incorporated into buildings)

    Imagine a huge business such as McDonalds were celebrating gay rights and introduced the McGayburger for a limited period. An employee cannot refuse to serve this to customers who order it because the employee is working for someone else.

    An employee could refuse to do something on religious grounds and most employers would be obligated to accommodate them, even to the point where they can't do something that is a large part of their job. An example is a Muslim air stewardess refusing to serve alcohol. Where it becomes interesting and shows up the stupidity of pandering is when you get conflicting 'victim' groups. Can a Muslim refuse to serve someone who is gay? Which intersectionality scoring system wins?

    Things like that show up the stupidity of the whole pandering. Business should be able to refuse service and also fire employees who can't or won't do their job.

    People who don't like it should start their own businesses.

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe

    LUHE this is from the CAB site.

    Someone who provides goods, facilities and services would be discriminating against you if, because of your sexual orientation, they:

    • refused to sell you something
    • did not allow you to use a service
    • provided you with worse or more expensive goods or services than someone with a different sexual orientation
    • behaved in a rude or hostile way.
  • Simon
    Simon
    Someone who provides goods, facilities and services would be discriminating against you if, because of your sexual orientation, they ...

    How does someone know anyone's sexual orientation if they just walk in to purchase something?

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe

    I don't know Simon, I'm simply answering LUHE's point that you can refuse to serve someone and ask them to leave without getting into trouble in the UK.

  • Simon
    Simon

    The point is, you cannot. The legislation is ill-conceived and activist - it's a club intentionally designed to bash christian business owners for ideological reasons which is why it's only ever used as such.

    If anyone is walking up to buy a cake saying "I am gay and ..." then they are an idiot and doing it to make a point. I've never felt the need to proclaim my heterosexuality when purchasing any pastries, it's of zero relevance to purchasing a cake.

    Which means it's not about being served in a store, it's about hiring someone for their personal, artistic skills.

    The person offering that service has a right to refuse to associate their name to any work that they find objectionable.

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