Debating Disassociation

by B_Deserter 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • B_Deserter
    B_Deserter

    It's been about 10 years since I posted here. A lot's happened of course. But here's where I'm at right now.

    I was never (to my knowledge) disfellowshipped. I never formally disassociated. I've been living as a "worldly" person for about 14 years now. I "faded." I still maintain speaking relationships with my immediate JW family with one exception. I am now currently married and we have a young daughter.

    One thing that "keeps me up at night" is my mother trying to indoctrinate my daughter. I haven't really discussed it with my mom, but I feel that things are going to come to a head when she starts asking if my daughter can spend the night there, because my wife and I have agreed that our daughter will never spend time alone with my mom.

    My mom is a 100% pure JW robot. Her loyalty is to the organization. To her, the organization and God are synonymous. She even told me there's nothing the organization could say or do that would make her question it. One thing that goes through my mind is my mom kidnapping my daughter out of a genuine concern of "saving" her from armageddon. I realized that this is a very far-fetched scenario but JW new light is unpredictable and I don't feel comfortable taking the chance that there could be some convention part or in the broadcast telling JWs to go so far as to "do what is necessary" to save other family members who might not necessarily "want" to be saved at first.

    She periodically bugs me about religion. She sends me doom and gloom texts telling me how I need to come back to Jehovah because my family's life is at stake. She also helps us out a lot, especially financially (we don't ask for help, she just sends us money when she hears we get into a bind). She's very generous. I know she's not "buying" our love but I have to admit it does make me feel like I have some obligation toward her. Plus, I would really like my daughter to have a relationship with all of her living grandparents. If my mother could respect boundaries and had personal limits as to what she'd do for the organization, it wouldn't be an issue. I could handle the occasional religious nagging.

    Anyway, to the point, I was listening to a podcast where Lloyd Evans was interviewed, and he mentioned that he decided do disassociate himself for the good of his daughter, to provide a barrier to prevent in-laws from indoctrinating his daughter. It got me wondering if I should do this. The idea of a "clean break" from the organization even after all these years is appealing to me. I'd be making it absolutely clear that there's no chance of me coming back. On the downside, it would mean my family has to shun me officially (they get around the rule because I'm not disfellowshipped). And honestly I'm not even sure my mom would shun me. My older brother was disfellowshipped for years, even started believing in doctrines like the trinity and immortal soul, and my mom still talked to him on the phone almost every night. They'd even have religious debates.

    I'm just having trouble deciding if the "clean break" is worth the extra complications it would cause for my family.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I can’t see any upside to disassociating in this or most situations. In a best case scenario your mum goes on associating with you as normal and the risk of her preaching to your daughter remains. In the worst case scenario she shuns you completely. Where is the upside?

    From what I remember, in Lloyd’s case, if he hadn’t disassociated then he would have been disfellowshipped anyway because the local JWs had figured out who he was. So I don’t follow his reasons here. And the last I remember, he said his wife is not disfellowshipped and his JW in laws do see his children. He attempted to meet up with his dad but his dad avoided them. That may have changed, I don’t watch all the videos. (Who could?)

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Given what you say about your mother, I am not sure that it would provide the barrier that you seek.

    Grandparents have a stake in grandchildren, that is a fact of life not only JWs. I have known of Witnesses with d/f’d adult children who still cared for the little ones one day a week.....with the parents permission of course, just taking the kid at the door.

    Frankly I think your fears of kidnap are unfounded. The WTS would never embrace such a policy. Even if they wanted to, their lawyers would not let them.

    I understand you don’t want your daughter indoctrinated with their beliefs. I guess you will just have to be firm with your mother , telling her to never say it in your daughters presence. A threat of not being able to see her granddaughter at all might do the trick.

  • pistolpete
    pistolpete

    Don't let the situation force you into anything.

    Just be firm and don't let your daughter be alone with "Any" JWs, and keep the family relationship intact---according to the rules YOU SET.

    If the money your mother sends you is an issue----then just send it back and say; No thanks, we are OK,

    The key is to be firm and KIND.

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    As one who did resign--i would say--dont do it--leave well alone.

    How old is your daughter ? Is your wife an Ex jw too ?

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    . . . . . . according to the rules YOU SET. ~ Pistol Pete

    I agree with those who say not to take that step to disassociate. We, too, are considered just "inactive" and probably "spiritually weak", thus while almost no former JW (conditional) friends reach out to us, they don't hesitate to talk if we meet in public, etc. And, almost none of our family is shunning us. To me "disassociating" is to play by WT Rules. They can toss your file.

  • SnakesInTheTower
    SnakesInTheTower

    B Deserter

    I also walked away 14 years ago. As far as I know, I'm not DF and I never DA.

    My JW mom is same as yours, 50 years in it, not leaving. Still talks to me, also generous. We don't have young kids so not an issue for us.

    DA/DF is a WTBTS/JW dot borg construct. You don't believe it, why play by their rules. Why force an unforced issue (unlike Lloyd, he was getting booted anyway)?

    My opinion. Your mileage may vary. Good luck.

    Snakes (Rich)

  • truth_b_known
    truth_b_known

    If you want to be free you must stop thinking in Watchtower terms. Words are tokens or placeholders for ideas. If you are wondering if you should Disassociate yourself you are still practicing the religion in your head.

    The easiest way to protect your daughter is to let her grow up free and happy. How many birthday parties has she had or attended? What is Christmas like at your house? How many friends does she regularly play with who live in the neighborhood or are classmates? Does she have any hobbies that require associating with people such as organized sports or other activities?

    Most of my own children got a taste of life as a Jehovah's Witness. All of them at some point started experiencing normal life events like birthdays, holidays, and peer related activities such as school sports or clubs. All of them are in agreement - Being one of Jehovah's Witnesses is not for them.

  • Rocketman123
    Rocketman123

    B_D you better make it clear to your mother that you don't want any religious activity around your daughter, such as praying or talking about God ..etc etc.

    Your going to have to make a firm and clear understanding when your daughter is visiting or that visiting arrangement will be cut off.

    Harsh perhaps but this is harsh highly controlling cult that your mother is in, so you have to take firm counter measures.

  • just fine
    just fine

    I know the kidnapping part sounds far fetched, but I have seen in my own family where the JW grandparents made wild DFS accusations against their DF’d child in an attempt to gain custody of the grandchild so that they could “save” the grandchild.

    Of course the accusations were investigated and found to be false, but the hell it put the parents through was inexcusable. Never trust a JW.

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