What the Org Teaches #4 There Are Two Ways to Get Sins Wiped Out

by The Searcher 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  The Searcher

  #4 There Are Two Ways to Get Sins Wiped Out

  The following five scriptures lay the foundation stone of Christianity, namely, that Christ died for people's sins. Virtually every Christian denomination on earth accepts these Bible statements without question:

  (Matthew 26:28) "....this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins."

  (John 1:29) "See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!"

  (Acts 5:31) "God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins."

  (1 John 2:2) "And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s."

  (Revelation 1:5) "To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood."

  However, the WTBTS/Jehovah's Witnesses invalidate these scriptures by their false doctrine that a person's own death wipes out their past sins. They do this by interpreting the word "died" at Romans 6:7 as being literal rather than figurative. This is what their dogma says:

  Watchtower May 15th 1982, pp. 8,9; "The Bible explains that at death a person is set free or released from any sins he committed. It says: "He who has died has been acquitted from his sin." (Romans 6:7)

  bh p. 214 par. 3 Judgment Day - "According to the apostle John’s vision, "scrolls were opened," and "the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds." (Revelation 20:12) Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: "The one who has died has been acquitted from his sin." (Romans 6:7) Those resurrected thus come to life with a clean slate, so to speak."

  Is Romans 6:7 to be taken literally or figuratively? Are there two ways to wipe out sins, or just one? The w09 11/1 p. 21 says this - "When it comes to studying words found in the Bible, you also need to know the context in which the word appears."

  By reading the surrounding verses - 2,4,6,8, & 11 - as well as the following scriptures - the true context and meaning of "died" is clearly proven to be figurative. Paul was counseling the Roman Christians in chapters 6, 7, & 8 about "dying" to their former, willful and sinful lives.

  (Romans 7:4,9,10) "So, my brothers, YOU also were made dead to the Law through the body of the Christ; In fact, I was once alive apart from law; but when the commandment arrived, sin came to life again, but I died. And the commandment which was to life, this I found to be to death."

  (Romans 8:10) "But if Christ is in union with YOU, the body indeed is dead on account of sin..."

  (Ephesians 2:1) "Furthermore, [it is] YOU [God made alive] though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and sins,"

  (Galatians 2:19) "As for me, through law I died toward law, that I might become alive toward God..."

  (Colossians 2:13) "Furthermore, though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and in the uncircumcised state of YOUR flesh, [God] made YOU alive together with him..　.　." (Colossians 3:3) "For YOU died, and YOUR life has been hidden with the Christ in union with God." (2 Timothy 2:11) "Certainly if we died together, we shall also live together;" (Revelation 3:1) "‘I know your deeds, that you have the name that you are alive, but you are dead."

  For anyone who is studying with J.W.'s, ask your study conductor these two questions:

  "Why did Jesus have to die if a person's own death wipes out their sins?"
  

  "Does this teaching not mean that a mass murderer who is killed by police, automatically receives forgiveness for his evil acts because he's been shot dead?"
  
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  Vanderhoven7

  So that's how they believe their sins are forgiven without access to the new covenant. Thank you for sharing your study.

  Where are studies 1 - 3?
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  The Searcher

  Hi VH7 - if you click on The Searcher at the top of the page, you'll see my previous posts started.
  
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  snugglebunny

  Sorry Searcher but you obviously don't realise that sins are not forgiven until you've sat in front of a judicial committee and subjected yourself to an examination in which all the minutiae of your misdeeds have been gone over with a fine toothcomb.

  Good post, thanks.
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  stavro

  For anyone who is studying with J.W.'s, ask your study conductor these two questions:
  "Why did Jesus have to die if a person's own death wipes out their sins?"
  "Does this teaching not mean that a mass murderer who is killed by police, automatically receives forgiveness for his evil acts because he's been shot dead?"

  As I was an active JW until recently, let me see how the organisations response holds up under scrutiny.

  The wages sin pays is death, so as long as the mass murderer remains dead he has paid or is continuing to pay for his sins. If he is no longer dead, due to having being resurrected, then he is no longer paying the wages for his sins and therefor must ultimately die again. To avoid having to die again Jesus dies in his place. As long as Jesus remains dead in the flesh, the wages for sins is paid on behalf of everyone who wants to benefit from this arrangement.
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  prologos

  Searcher, well re-searched. My question is: Since Adam died, paid for his terrible sin of eating the stolen fruit, why would we all have to keep paying too? and: wt of course makes the wiping out of sins conditional on total devotion to their mandate here on Earth, including prominent mention of them in your last will, estate going to "kingdom interests" -- : really 2.5 ways to have your sins, (and assets) wiped out.
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  The Searcher

  @ stavro - you're right, that is the programmed "response" to justify the Org's false interpretation of Romans 6:7. However, their deception is compounded by imputing that a person's death pays for, acquits, or settles the debts of their evil deeds. The first part of Romans 6:23 shows that death is the payment or consequence of sin - not the absolution of it. It says nothing about death wiping out sins - only the consequences.

  The second part (and numerous other scriptures) then clearly shows the basis for forgiveness is not achieved by physically dying, but by figuratively dying and trusting in Jesus Christ - just as Romans 6:7 directs.

  For example,

  (John 3:16) . . .“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

  (John 6:40) For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

  (John 20:31) But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.

  (Romans 6:23) For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.

  (1 Corinthians 15:22) "For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive."

  (2 Timothy 3:15) and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

  (1 John 5:13) I write you these things so that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God.

  
  

  
  
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  The Searcher

  @ prologos - (Romans 5:12) "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned."

  Like millions of other people, I've inherited something from one of my parents which makes life a lot less enjoyable - but I accept it and do my best.

  According to the scriptures, we have all inherited from our original "parents" the condition of death which they brought upon themselves.

  I very much appreciate that many here are atheists and don't subscribe to such teachings, but I'm simply providing the scriptural reasoning as to why people die.
  
  
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  stavro

  The first part of Romans 6:23 shows that death is the payment or consequence of sin - not the absolution of it. It says nothing about death wiping out sins - only the consequences.
  The second part (and numerous other scriptures) then clearly shows the basis for forgiveness is not achieved by physically dying, but by figuratively dying and trusting in Jesus Christ - just as Romans 6:7 directs.

  Thanks searcher I agree with this.

  According to the scriptures, we have all inherited from our original "parents" the condition of death which they brought upon themselves.

  Why did God design things in such a way that sin would be passed on from Adam and Eve to all future generations? Was he obliged to design things this way or was it by choice?
  
  
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  prologos

  Searcher, even atheists would agree that our dying has to do with the genetic package we received and pass on.

  Trying to tap into the reasoning in the "original sin" story, my question is, since Adam's sin is cancelled by his demise, why are we affected by his now non-existing, wiped-out sin? His real sin for us was to have offspring before he died? while he was imperfect, waiting to pay the price? Life is expensive, you pay for it with your death? and: you can wipe out sin, but even if you did, not the consequences?