“...in the name of our Lord Jesus” explanation please?

by Jules Saturn 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Steel

    The general idea is when god revealed himself in the old testament, people were actually seeing and communicating with Jesus Christ.

    The term LORD or Jehovah becomes somewhat ambiguous between Jesus and his father because of that fact.

  • Poppy520

    Unfortunately, there is no Greek word for "an" or "a". When we translate to English, we have to add this into our text.
    John 1:1 says in Greek, "En arche en ho Logos kai ho Logos en pros ton Theon kai Theos en ho Logos" (I'm not pretending this is off the top of my head! Haha I'm using an interlinear)
    John 1:1 in English, of course, is *literally* translated, "In [the] beginning was the Word and the Word was with God (Theon) and God (Theos) was the Word."

    Now, at first glance this appears to say that the Word is God, that Jesus is *not the Father* but is God.... and that would be correct. Unless you add in the english "a" before Theos, it in no way, shape, or form, reads, "a god". This is a wrong insertion from the Watchtower. They believe that because John uses two different words to describe Jesus and God (even though it's two different ways of spelling the same word) that this must mean that Jesus is lesser than God, called "a god" just as God refers to false idols as "gods". The difference however, is God makes it clear to call those idols lifeless, whereas life is found in Jesus.

    There is another verse in psalms 82:6,7, which says, "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other rule." - so even in this case it isn't a very happy verse. God is speaking about the judges who were given authority from God to judge. In this verse, they are called "elohim", yet, they are not said to have eternal life, unlike our Logos who was in the beginning with Theon.

    Now, this argument of two different words, "Theos" being a lesser god and "Theon" being the big G-God, doesn't hold up because there are places in the Bible where our big G-God is ascribed the title of "theos". Consider Hebrews 1:-3 which says, "God (THEOS), who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the worlds;" If you actually go on the JW website and read this verse out of the NWT, the Watchtower give examples of Theos, Jehovah, speaking to the prophets in the Old Testament. Even they acknowledge that Theos is used to describe Jehovah. Through a simple word search of "Theos", you will find many instances of it in the Bible where it is used to talk about Jehovah, places where it would be silly to translate it, "a god". Consider Matthew 22:32, "I am the God (THEOS) of Abraham, the God (THEOS) of Isaac, and the God (THEOS) of Jacob? God (THEOS) is not the God (THEOS) of the dead, but of the living." Wouldn't it be silly to translate it, "I am a lesser god of Abraham, a lesser god of Isaac, and a lesser god of Jacob? A lesser god is not the lesser god of the dead, but of the living."

    So we see that John 1:1 is fair to interpret the scripture as an argument for the Trinity. The Doctrine of the Trinity does NOT hold that Jesus IS the Father and IS the Holy Spirit. No, it holds that Jesus is God and the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God - the three are separate but God, not three Gods however. Examine Matthew 28:19, "... Baptizing in the name (singular, not "names of the...") of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

    Mind you, I want to say that Jesus prayed to the Father as a man, coming in the form of the Son. That is why He prayed to the Father. Also, consider Isaiah, speaking of the throne room in Isaiah 6:3, "And they were calling to one another: "Holy (1), holy (2), holy (3) is the LORD Almight; the whole earth is full of his (singular) glory." And compare it with Matthew 27:46 where Jesus says, being absent from the throne room and nailed to a cross, "... My God (1), My God (2), why have You (singular) forsaken Me?"

    Jesus is Lord because He is God

    Edit: I forgot! 13 years before the NWT was released, Johannes Greber released has translation of John 1:1 "a god" which he literally and explicitly says that he divined this translation from spirits through contacting them in seances. He was a psychic-medium who spoke frequently to spirits. Now, we know that mediums are demonic and that this witchcraft is CONDEMNED in the Bible, Old AND New Testaments, meaning that he was given this translation from demons against the commandments of GOD (your Jehovah). Johannes Greber, according to the Watchtower, would be called an "apostate" - yet even the Watchtower, I kid you not, sites Greber as a justification for their translation of "a god". This is all public knowledge - the Watchtower organization used a satanic, apostate reference to justify their distorting of scriptures.
    Also, if you read what many secular Greek language scholars have to say about the NWT, they believe it is a horrible translation and not even a translation, just a distortion and perversion of an earlier translation from someone else to push their own doctrines. Also, the Watchtower made the claim that the NWT was translated through the Holy Spirit and that it is the best translation ever to exist and that there is no need for another, yet they have released three revised versions.... so perfect, huh?
  • smiddy3

    Jules Saturn

    The KI translation of the greek text printed and published by the WTB&TS in the word for word rendering says "the word was God" their interpretation of that scripture added "a" before God.

  • Crazyguy

    One needs to look at the evolution of the New Testament and the early Christian beliefs. Jesus was a knew promoted god and savor of mankind, the Christ. People promoted him a such and the father god wasn’t that important. Marcion and the Gnostics didn’t even like the god of the Old Testament calling him the dimurge an evil demon.

    Then there came Arius and he claimed that Jesus was a created deity. Then they decided that Jesus was one with his father . Later the trinity came to be as the Holy Spirit was then promoted as part of this composite. If one reads the Bible you can see this evolution of jesus in the Bible.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Well said Poppy! Wrong on hell but right on on Christology. Jesus is Lord and God... as Thomas affirmed.

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