Aust census: incomes: JWs falling further behind?

by shepherdless 24 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • konceptual99

    I'm not really sure what we disagree about Ruby

    My original response was related to the question of income and areas. In the main, with some exceptions, I would suggest that in most urban areas (which is essentially what most of England is) location is a result of income not the other way around. There are areas like the Highlands, rural areas of Wales and pockets in England that location may drive earning potential however IMHO this does not hold true for much of the country.

    I think here in the UK geography means that in the main (especially in England), low and high income communities are often close to each other. This is mirrored in urban areas of even geographically large countries like Australia.

    JWs are often in lower income brackets.

    JWs often have less income going towards long term investments, pensions etc. This means more disposable income however this is offset in more recent times by the high cost of housing.

    Whilst I see well off Witnesses with well paid, professional jobs and those with low levels of debt (regardless of income level/job type) there is no doubt in my mind that for the majority of younger Witnesses who are working in lower earning jobs they will have much higher levels of debt than their parents would have had at a similar point in their lives.

    I don't know about teens leaving and coming back other to say that I don't think that there are many teens who leave, get an education, enter a well paid job and decide to come back in when they have a family. I don't think the recent scenarios played out in the WT publications and videos about those that rebel, leave, make sme bad choices and come back after some pain are fair from the truth about the majority of those teens that do come back.

    I think Shepherdess' OP data would mirror the UK.

  • Ruby456

    we agree on most things konceptual but my main focus is on what would drive JWS to earn less than average or of occupying lower income brackets to slant the discussion to what gives satisfaction to an individual or that may contribute to their sense of well-being in contrast to simple economic gain. But I would argue that even simple economic gain is not straightforward as any debts that people have will impact their standard of living and well being. so, jws, I argue are not so left behind as we might conclude from a simple comparison of how much less they earn than others. or am I wrong on this?

    edit: no info here from wt publications. if anything some of my ideas and questions come from The Conversation site.

  • konceptual99

    What slants them is the emphasis on pioneering from school, vocational training stopping at 18 rather than university, demonising of careers and career development and so on. [EDIT] - ultimately minimising education that can help them be financially astute.

    Few young Witnesses have a good level of understanding of economics. They are told to rely on Jehovah, lead a so called "simple life", rather than make sound financial plans. Whilst debt is discouraged it becomes an inevitability for many who try and stick to the implied rules on what is an acceptable level and type of work yet long for the gadgets, possessions and holidays of those with more income.

    Most of them never wanted to be in debt, they just aren't savvy enough to avoid it.

    Don't forget as well that debt is not limited to Witnesses and it's often regardless of income. If you are financially astute you can have plenty of disposable income even on relatively low wages. Being born into a Witness family often means you never learn sound financial advice even if offered. The culture encourages ignorance.

  • Ruby456

    yes I agree konceptual.

    another thing that might skew figures is that quite a few jws work for themselves so they take out their expenses and therefore their disposable income will seem less than the average.

  • steve2

    I've come late to this fascinating discussion. One factor that could prevent JWs from 'going for' higher paying jobs is the necessary years of training to get those jobs. JW youth are not encouraged nor helped by their families to do such training - even if they are intellectually capable of doing the training. At the "best" of times, younger adults can be dissuaded from following plans to further their education; how much more so when they are raised in an environment that often derides the drive to improve/increase one's education and job-related training.

    On the question of why those who leave go back, I'd suggest it is because they may well have left due to the usual things that take younger ones off track - and these centre round what JWs would call "worldly" distractions and pleasures. They sooner or later learn, however, they are just not equipped to deal with the downs that follow the highs and are left with the same hang-ups etc.

    On the other hand, among my peers who have left, those who have managed somehow to better themselves through education, training and gaining a sense of personal efficacy have not returned.

    Education offers options seldom available to others.

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