WT on Discipline

by ttdtt 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ttdtt

    The watchtower has always been deceptive in that it kinda says what sounds right - but what it really means is obvious to the rank and file.
    Like in the X-Files when the gov keeping "plausible denial" at all times.

    This month highlights an article to help parents - "Teaching Children to Obey".


    First off that phrase offends me - I know the WT feels children are "arrows" for fathers to aim, and not people who are to be nurtured to become their own unique person making choices that are right for them when they mature.

    And - they love the word OBEY!
    They want young and old to alike to OBEY the GB, so you must start that power structure at birth.

    Second, GB Lord Jackson testified to the ARC that JWs don't condone hitting kids as punishment. Sounds good - but not the case at all. So here is an excerpt from this "wonderful article".

    Employ discipline. One dictionary defines discipline as “training which produces obedience or self-control, often in the form of rules and punishments if these are broken.” Of course, discipline should never be unreasonable or abusive. On the other hand, it should not be vague or inconsequential, leaving the child with no incentive to change.—Bible principle: Proverbs 23:13.

    Those words sound ok - but what is "unreasonable" and "abusive" largely depends on a person's opinion, and the culture they come from. I know plenty of "friends" who talk about how important giving uppity kids a "whooping" is.

    Is the WT against that? Well they may say if questioned that - no we are not saying to hit your kids - maybe, but look at the scripture they use to defend their stance on discipline. Prov 23:13

    13 Do not hold back discipline from a boy.If you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

    Actually Mr. Bible writer - many many many kids have died because an angry parent or guardian has STRUCK them!

    And this scripture is not talking about "non-corpral-punishent" - it talks about hitting someone with a ROD, it's very clear.

    Gee - I am sure that's the way Jesus would want you to act with a 4 year old who spills the milk again, right?

    When once confronting and elder about hitting kids being disgusting, and point out that "I will never believe that's the way Jesus would discipline a kid", his answer was - "well Jesus was perfect".

    I just shook my head.

    Not only does this article show that the WT is still stuck in the 1920s, but it show the bible is in NO WAY a book inspired by some awesome loving all knowing deity.

    It's just a horrible book filled with horrible examples of god and his followers (who by the way did way worse things than the pagan nations around them) filled with horrible advice on every aspect of life. So what that in a few of its books it has some nice poetry in it? Big deal, so do lots of other books.

    The earth will never be a peace untill the bible and all the other "holy books" are eliminated from use and forgotten forever.

  • rebelfighter

    Thank you ttdtt,

    Never a JW, I never struck my children once when they were growing up and they are 2 very fine young adults today. I got many compliments on their manners and both of them when they recently were hired both were promoted within less then 90 days.

  • ttdtt

    Violence is never appropriate in any household.

    Hitting kids is not discipline.

  • Listener

    You made me stop and think ttdtt.

    You are absolutely right, the title 'Teaching children to obey' is offensive. Imagine a child educator coming out with a book of that title.

    We are their guardians and there to guide our children. At the very least, a more appropriate title would be 'Guiding your child to do what is right'. Even the use of the word 'children' makes it more impersonal.

    We are not their bosses, to bully them around with whatever whim we wish to inflict on them. Even in various sectors of the business world, the term boss is being less used and replaced by terms such as Team Leaders or Supervisors.

    As you mentioned, they play the same game with the sheepie's, they demand obedience rather than guiding them and the discipline is severe.

    They have set up their own little Kingdom, based on the ancient Israelites with their strict laws and punishment for breaking them. The bible talks about a New Covenant where laws are written in people's hearts, this doesn't require the control that they practice. However, they don't believe the sheepie's are in this New Covenant and therefore don't have the law written in their hearts and no doubt, they feel they have the duty to Lord it over them. No wonder they want parents to be strict and calculating, insisting on obedience and inflicting punishment when they disobey when it comes to teaching their own children.

    Of course, discipline should never be unreasonable or abusive. On the other hand, it should not be vague or inconsequential, leaving the child with no incentive to change

    Employing discipline is not always necessary and probably should be viewed as a last resort, depending on the situation. Often times, explaining the dangers or the consequences of their actions or the displeasure that it causes other people is sufficient. There are many times when the child already knows what they have done is wrong, guiding them to behave rather than discipline is much more beneficial. The article is not balanced.
  • ttdtt

    Thank you Listener!

    When you think about it, it's kinda strange that there is no education about how to be a parent.
    Parents often talk about "how there is no manual for it".

    Why not?

    What would do more good than making sure future parents know the basics about children and child psychology?

    We teach driver's ed, but no parents ed:)

    FYI - when kids say - "I don't know why I did it..." They are almost always telling the truth.
    A review of brain development would let you know that - and a little child psychology would help you to know how to help kids work to making better decisions as they grow, and their brain develops, and they start to get the ability to do more.

  • fastJehu
    Is the WT against that? Well they may say if questioned that - no we are not saying to hit your kids - maybe, but look at the scripture they use to defend their stance on discipline. Prov 23:13

    Official WT doctrine:

    A rod is a symbol of authority. At Proverbs 13:24, it refers to parental authority. In this context, employing the rod of discipline does not necessarily mean spanking a child. Rather, it represents the means of correction, whatever form it may take. In one case, a rebuke kindly given to a child may be sufficient to correct improper behavior. Another child may require a stronger reproof. “A rebuke works deeper in one having understanding than striking a stupid one a hundred times,” says Proverbs 17:10.

    Source: http://wol.jw.org/de/wol/dsync/r10/lp-x/r1/lp-e/2004527

    Personally I hope - that every JW knows this official position - for the benefit of children.

  • blondie

    The WTS used to talk about "spanking" more in its publications until several countries made laws against spanking children. The WTS even went to the point of editing its publications accessible to the public taking out that term.


  • ttdtt

    fastJehu thanks for the comment:)

    To bad they didnt use that scripture instead of:
    13 Do not hold back discipline from a boy.If you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

    But when you tell people who are used to beating their kids (not necessarily) it means its ok to hit your kids.

    Also many people have no idea how to "rebuke" their child in a way that teaches and not scares.

  • WTWizard

    And it doesn't stop with just spankings. Often, it becomes beatings, which are always abuse. They get taken home for beatings, sometimes just for making a little noise at the boasting session. A spanking is supposed to be just to get attention, not to inflict injury--and then it is not meant as the sole discipline.

    For what? I have seen children dragged in field circus, as young as age 8, through school vacation. The mother was pious-sneering that month, and the child had to be dragged in field circus the whole vacation. Playing with mud puddles and skipping around were infringements that led to spankings (and threatened beatings), when the culprit is too much time stolen from playing and too much field circus.

    Maybe there would be less "need" for spankings (and none for true beatings) if the rules weren't so against human nature. Do children need to be out in field circus from the time they are in strollers? All day? And, no play? They can't play at the boasting sessions. Their toys are taken away if they have even the tiniest connection with anything deemed "unscriptural" (that is, not promoting their enslavement and soul dissipation). They can't do vacations except at washtowel headquarters. They can't have their ice cream cone. And now, with the bunker videos, many will be forced to move into tiny apartments (more problems), lose more toys, and abandon those pet cats and dogs (and yes, rats and mice). No wonder they "need" so many spankings and beatings.

  • ttdtt

    WTWizard - I have seen and heard kids getting beat in the bathroom of the KH - made my blood boil.

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