Where they gold plates or were they of another metal? We're the American indian ancestors asian or Israelite? Was the book of Mormon setting in North America or Central America? Just like the JWS there are some very good explanations for explaining this away (e.g overlapping generation), and i suppose with a bit a stretch of the imagination could be plausible. The question I have is why would the creator of the universe produce a book that would require a group of men sitting in BYU to try and explain JS bat shit crazy ideas away.
Taking the Bible Lessons And Going To a KH For First Time
The book of Mormon is a joke, full of anachronisms and errors. Large portions of it were copied from the King James Bible. In fact, errors that existed in the King James bible of the time were replicated by Joseph Smith, which would be expected if he just made the whole thing up, but hard to explain if it was actually dictated by God.
It claims that American Indians are descended from Semites, but DNA testing proves that they are actually of Asian origin.
It claims that many things existed in meso America, like blacksmithing, chariots and steel swords when none of them were at that time.
It describes animals that were not in the Americas at the time, like cattle, dogs, sheep, goats and elephants.
Pale.Emperor » But for all that... you'd think they'd at least find a sword or an arrow head or a Nephite/Lamanite pot or something. All those people and battles?
You're absolutely correct.
Book of Mormon archeology is one of the most fascinating aspects of the Book of Mormon and there's considerable evidence that the events described therein occurred in Mesoamerica, not the northern part of what is now the United States.
Although there's a very vocal LDS group that disagrees, the Book of Mormon appears to take place in a tropical setting. There's no mention of snow, crossing frozen rivers, casualties from exposure. It also appears in an area of volcanic activity. In one case, poisonous serpents prevent travel through a narrow stop of land for five years. This would be impossible in a land where there was snow and ice. The Mexican people, however, have traditions of areas populated with such serpents. In one case, they directed immigrants into an afflicted area hoping they would perish (so as not to pose a future threat to them). Unfortunately for the existing population, the immigrants were snake eaters, and they soon cleaned the area of the fire snakes and they thrived and eventually conquered them.
You can read more about some of the research being done at http://www.bmaf.org/articles_list.
LisaRose » The book of Mormon is a joke, full of anachronisms and errors. Large portions of it were copied from the King James Bible. In fact, errors that existed in the King James bible of the time were replicated by Joseph Smith, which would be expected if he just made the whole thing up, but hard to explain if it was actually dictated by God.
Sounds like you've been reading anti-Mormon stuff. The people who write it are completely unqualified to evaluate the Book of Mormon because they're not archeologists, anthroplogists, geologists or historians. And when people say the types of things you say, it's clear the criticisms are not theirs, but the published views of others.
So what kind of anachronisms and errors?
I frankly don't know why the Lord used the King James translation, though I have some personal theories. The bottom line is that it's a translation, and Joseph Smith didn't use conventional means of translation. The only thing we have to answer is, is it a correct translation? Yes, if it was translated by the gift and power of God. Given the translation process, it would have been difficult to do a word for word copy and, indeed, parts of the Isaiah passages quoted by Nephi bear more of a resemblance to the Septuagint in critical places. The Book of Mormon also employs complex chiasms, an ancient style of writing found in both Hebrew and Mayan. It was virtually unknown in 1830.
For those who are interested in the evidences for the Book of Mormon, check these videos out.
I want to address the original post:
I've taken the Bible Lessons but have never attended a Kingdom Hall. I was curious as to what point they begin to tighten the screws of control? Let's say you're a Baptist. At what point do they tell you that you can't attend other churches or read anything critical of the Society?
Also, do they print any "how to" advice on how to bring these things up with those investigating "the Truth"? Have any of you guys had to broach these topics with a new or potential convert? What do they say? I've tried to imagine how one would bring up things like this and shunning to a new member or potential convert. I mean, there's a man or woman who's being shunned right there in the Hall. You think a visitor won't notice? Or what happens if a visitor just approaches the person been shunned and introduces himself? Do the handlers say, "Hey, we're not talking to that person!"
So can anyone help me out on this? These are tough subjects to broach. Do you wait until they're baptized before you start unloading these things on them? And when do they become subject to being shunned?
What do you want to accomplish? Do you want to be a JW and then leave? Do you want to stop taking Bible studies? You are not clear about what you want to do. Seems like you are more interested in finding out information about when/how to address people when they express disinterest, but what for and why?
No, I don't actually want to attend just yet. But I'm just curious.
Years ago my grandparents lived right across the street from a Kingdom Hall. My grandfather, a Methodist, was a religious man but didn't have a car. During bad weather and such, he would just go to the Kingdom Hall instead. And he would go nearly every Wednesday. He'd bathe, dress up and shave, then he'd take his Bible and go to meetings. Sometimes he'd bring literature back with him and the next morning over breakfast, he'd get his glasses and his Bible and go over it.
He did NOT buy into the sleep death doctrine at all, but he apparently felt he got something out of it. I was too young to understand anything anything about it. I just figured it was another church. I also didn't know what Armageddon was, but I knew it was bad and that if you were good you had nothing to fear. To me it was a huge word that ran across the whole page of some of the stuff he brought home with him.
I don't know if they offer Bible courses anymore -- they don't ask like they used to. But who knows? I used to go to other churches just to see what they were like, but stopped after visiting a Pentecostal church. Scared the hell outta me. I was one of the only people in my seat. Everyone else was rolling around and acting like people in that Walking Dead zombie show!
Years ago my grandparents lived right across the street from a Kingdom Hall. My grandfather, a Methodist, was a religious man but didn't have a car. During bad weather and such, he would just go to the Kingdom Hall instead.
Sounds like you're reminiscing about your early childhood.
Let's say you're a Baptist. At what point do they tell you that you can't attend other churches or read anything critical of the Society?
I went to a Baptist church for a while because I liked the preaching. I asked the pastor if there were any hidden rules if I wanted to keep coming. He said no, and was a man of his word. We attended there 3 years until we moved. We are still friends with everyone even though we don't attend a Baptist church now.
Most churches are run at the local level except for the old line denominations; and most of those are so compromised they wouldn't care about too much. The good ones just want to be good disciples of Jesus, care about others, live in peace and live out their lives as Christians.
What the Watchtower does to members is unlike anything in the NT church, because the WT only applies God's Grace to the leaders. This sets up the two-class system where them and ONLY them are needed for your salvation.
In Christian churches, everyone is a member of the New Covenant, which puts everyone on the same level. The leaders are just servants in the same position as the members.
Perry » What the Watchtower does to members is unlike anything in the NT church, because the WT only applies God's Grace to the leaders. This sets up the two-class system where them and ONLY them are needed for your salvation.
The faithful and discreet slave used to be the 144,000 anointed, self-appointed class. Then the leaders hijacked the term and cut everyone else off at the knees. Oh, the others will still be resurrected as spirits who can manufacture physical bodies at will (I suppose while visiting their family, friends and cats on Paradise Earth.) They also apply grace to all those who made up the ancient saints. All of them make it.
So why do they knock on our doors? So we can survive an Armageddon they don't understand and be trapped in a garden for untold trillions of years eating vegetables, grains and fruits. We get to go to the mountains, to the beaches, hold meetings and have family reunions for more millions of years than there are grains on the shore. Each day will be like the one before and the one after. If I make it is go nuts! I'll make some cool looking uniforms, get a bunch of people together and start a war! I'll conquer the next valley, then the next and do on. Meanwhile, cows will begin disappearing at night.
I've got it all figured out.
Wanna be a General? How are you with a grill?