Do JWs think Jesus was a liar or just a fool?

by TTWSYF 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been so busy.

    TTWSYF: Never heard of the tree dwelling Christains before

    Just some more observations (and historical references)

    That's OK (to never hear of tree-dwelling Christians), but it does demonstrate that "Christians" know incredibly little about their own history. St Simeon (do you believe that people can become 'saints'.after death?) the Stylite became incredibly powerful. When the Emperor Theodosius wanted to rebuild a Jewish synagogue, 'Saint' Simeon condemned him and forced him to retract his promise.

    Below is a sixth century engraving showing Simeon resisting Satan

    Simeon Stylite Louvre.jpg


    TTWSFYF: Incredibly, in spite of these 4th century converted people, the church still grew to include some 20% of the entire world's population.

    True, but its more likely that the figure is more than 30%, though any decision about numbers brings up the tiresome topic of who is actually a Christian?

    But let's take a look at this claim. Early Christianity did spread. But its incredibly difficult to establish accurate figures. The first Christians would have been almost entirely Jewish. And there's an interesting point made in Acts about them. Jesus performed his short ministry almost entirely in Galilee, but the Jews that Luke sees fit to nominate in Acts 2 (vs 9-11) are mostly from the eastern and southern provinces of the Roman Empire. For example, some of the first mentioned were Parthians, Medes and Mesopotamians etc in other words, descendants of Jews who did not return (from Babylon) to Jerusalem after Messiah Cyrus's liberation decree. All this Jesus the Messiah stuff was new to them.

    For some centuries the east (and Egypt) were strongly Christian. (We are just witnessing the almost final end of the eastern Church. But was that because of Jesus? I suggest to you that historical evidence for a large church is just not there, UNTIL the conversion (sort of) of the Emperor Constantine. He started a campaign of forced conversions and the destruction of pagan temples and places of folk religion importance. And it has been the same ever since. I'm sure that you wouldn't really approve of the way that South America was "converted" would you? Of course, forced conversions did not always work. Sometimes, as in Japan, forced conversions caused a reaction and tens of thousands of 'Christians" were slaughtered in a campaign by the Japanese government. (Did Jesus decide to just them die?) Something similar in China, where European nations forced the weak government of the nineteenth century to allow 'Christian missionaries' into China. The so-called Boxer Rebellion was a reaction to that and thousands of 'Christians' were slaughtered by Chinese advocating the expulsion of the west from China.

    In the earlier Taiping Rebellion (the Taiping were Christians) in the mid nineteenth century that nearly toppled the then Qing dynasty, it is so interesting that the rebellion was eventually quelled when the 'Christian west' decided that they preferred to manipulate the weak pagan Qing, rather than face a strong Chinese government, even if it was Christian.

    I think you'll agree that was a really incredible turn of events?

    TTWSYF: And the church that was started by Jesus [,under the influence of his deluded mother], started an organization that compiled the most popular book ever written. Gave the world the college system, hospitals, foodbanks, homeless shelters, orphanages, the scientific method, and civil rights for ALL people. It's amazing when you think of how it all started, and yet continues. Of course, these are just observations.

    just a few more historical observations for you to check out?

    Did you know that the Sumerians had 'scribal schools' as early as the fourth Millenium BCE, (Must've been about the time that the most popular book ever written says that there was a world wide flood, but since Freddy Franz used that to set his dates, I've lost a bit of confidence in the 'most popular book in the world.')

    And actually, the oldest University (wait for it, while we have some drum rolls) is ...

    The University of al-Qarawiyyin or Al Quaraouiyine (Arabic: جامعة القرويين‎) is a university located inFes, Morocco. It is the oldest existing, continually operating and the first degree awarding educational institution in the world according to UNESCO and Guinness World Records[5] and is sometimes referred to as the oldest university.[6] The Al Quaraouiyine mosque-religious school / college was founded by Fatima al-Fihri in 859 with an associated school, or madrasa, which subsequently became one of the leading spiritual and educational centers of the historic Muslim world. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Al_Quaraouiyine

    Pik below

    Var 132.jpg

    Which, of course, is Islamic.

    The Buddhists in India had one even older, dating back to the fifth century CE

    Nalanda University India ruins.jpg

    Remains of the University of Nalandra

    But invading Muslims armies forcibly closed it down (funny how religions like to do that to each other)

    I wonder if you (in writing particularly the last section quoted) just closed your eyes and wrote on automatic.

    Do you really believe that Christianity was responsible for the western 'enlightenment?.

    think about this quote:

    "The Enlightenment of 18th century was an extension of the scientific revolution in which rational thought and reason was extended from nature to society. Thinkers of the Enlightenment, known as philosophes, completely rejected the supremacy of religion, superstition and Church authority and replaced it with reason."

    https://mmuntazir.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/influence-of-enlightenment-on-economic-social-thought/

    On Hospitals: Some of the very large pagan temples in the Roman Empire were actually sanctuaries for healing. Sort of like hospitals.

    I've run out to time, hope that's enough to go on with.


  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Actually Jesus according to his own words identifies JWS as liars and fools for being disobedient and unloyal to his instructions toward preaching his gospel.

    False prophets can never be approved by Jesus ........sorry Jehovah's Witnesses

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