Why UK'ers bash America

by Jayson 10 Replies latest social current

  • Jayson


    Crime and punishment

    Sharp rise in rape cases overshadows fall in crime rate

    Alan Travis, home affairs editor
    Thursday July 17, 2003
    The Guardian
    An unexplained 27% rise in female rape cases last year cast a shadow today over the publication of Home Office figures that reveal the crime rate in England and Wales held broadly stable in 2002-3.

    The annual publication of the police recorded crime figures, together with the more authoritative British Crime Survey, suggest that the fall in crime recorded since 1995 has slowed down and may be coming to an end.

    The BCS, which is based on interviews with 40,000 people about their experience of crime, suggests that the overall crime rate fell by 2%, while police-recorded crime dropped by 3% once adjustments are made for changes in recording practices.

    A freaking poll is more authoriative? (stupid stupid stupid)

    But the slight fall in overall crime was masked by the unexplained rise in female rape from 8,990 cases to 11,441. The rise may be due to increased reporting by victims.

    There was also a separate 8% rise in "stranger violence" - assaults and woundings by people unknown to the victims.

    Professor Paul Wiles, the Home Office research director, said that there has been a long-running campaign to encourage rape victims to come forward and report it to the police: "I can't say that 'x' per cent of that is part of this. We don't know."

    Ruth Hall of Women Against Rape said it was impossible to know what had caused last year's steep increase. "But we would not say it was down to increased confidence in the police.

    no kidding

    "It is much more likely to reflect that more and more women are determined to go ahead [in reporting rape], despite what they know about the police and the crown prosecution service refusing to bring the case."

    This is so true.
    Police figures on violent crime - adjusted for changes in recording practices - show a 2% rise in the last financial year with rises in child abduction and child cruelty cases, indecent assaults and gun possession.

    Drug crime, particulary possession of drugs, rose by 16%, although robbery was down by 11%.

    The home secretary, David Blunkett, said he was encouraged by the figures showing overall crime continuing to fall and that car crime and burglary were now at historically low levels.

    Maybe that is traffic crimes like speeding that are lower

    But the shadow home secretary, Oliver Letwin, said the rise in violent crime was extremely worrying and showed that the government was making no headway in tackling disorder.

    "Sadly the figures will come as no surprise to the millions of people up and down the country who suffer daily from crime, or the fear of crime, much of it drug related," Mr Letwin said.

    The Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, Simon Hughes, said: "Muddying the waters about the way these figures are recorded will not reassure the public. The fact is there is still a huge amount to be done to tackle serious violent and sexual offences.

    "A history of under-report ing means that the public has been kept in the dark about the true level of crime."

    He added: "It cannot be acceptable that 11,441 women were raped last year. It cannot be acceptable that there were 1,048 homicides. It cannot be acceptable that there were 141,116 drugs offences last year."

    Obsession of America helps to keep the focus off of their own dire situation. They ignore their own shortcommings out of fools pride and decades of liberal indoctrination. "Crime is a disorder to be solved with understanding. It is not an evil to be fought against." After all we are all equal human beings who need loving and understanding. "In the UK robbers and rapists are people too."


    Should UK Police Carry Firearms?


    Oisin Moonchild

    There are many schools of thought about whether or not the UK Police should carry firearms.

    I have 29 years in "The Job" and one of my first acts was to attend the Funeral of Superintendent Gerry Richardson of the Lancashire Constabulary who was murdered (shot) whilst trying to arrest a male responsible for an armed Robbery on a Jewellers in Blackpool, Lancashire. (July 1971)

    Since 1971 a number UK officers have been murdered whilst on duty but not all those killed have been as a result of firearms. Where there has been a death as result of a firearm, I hazard to guess how many times the possession of a firearm by the deceased Officer would have saved his/her life. If we are to consider that factor we should look at the "mindset" of the UK Officer.

    In the UK firearms are not as prevalent as they are in the USA. Even more so since the UK Government ban on the personal possession of firearms following the Dunblane Incident. So the vast majority of the UK society would perceive a threat of physical violence is more likely to be from someone with a knife or blunt instrument than someone with a firearm. By association UK Officers may have a similar perception.

    There was always a reluctance by UK Criminals to use firearms as the British Courts were not frightened to impose the Death Penalty were someone had died. Unfortunately the Death Penalty was outlawed in the late 1950's early 1960's. Though the criminal community still preferred brute force as opposed to firearms. With the exception of London and to a lesser extent the other big UK Cities armed criminals were not a particular threat to Society in the 60's, 70's, 80's. However the 1990's has seen an explosive rise in criminal use of firearms, the UK Police has looked towards meeting the threat by firstly creating Armed Response Vehicles (ARV) and then increasing the frequency and number of patrols by ARV's.

    Like all Police Officers, across the Western World there is there ever present threat of "Trial by Media". We have all seen the Newspaper photograph that have been skilfully "cropped", so that the Offender(s) right hand that carries the machete is out of picture whilst the "baton" wielding Officer is there in all his Glory.

    Many UK Officers of the 1970's, 80's and to a lesser extent the 90's often felt that if they were given firearms they would be more frightened to use them for the trouble that we would bring down upon our own heads. This was the era of the Civil Liberties Group, whose sole intention was to discredit the Police or so it appeared; by showing them in a bad light by analysing every incident where an Officer had used force. During those decades our only form of protection was a 18" piece of wood that was concealed in a special trouser pocket. If we drew a baton in public, we were duty bound to complete a written report to justify our actions. In fact we had a fight on our hands around 1995 to get UK Government to allow UK Police to use PR24. Then a even bigger fight for them to allow the use of incapitants (sprays) and even then they went for CS and opposed to OC spray.

    It was Sir Robert Peel back in 1829 who forged the image of the unarmed British Police Officer. His aim was to gain popular acceptance of a group, then universally unacceptable to British Society. Within a Decade the "Peelers" had gained acceptance and become "Bobbies". Though they did often carry firearms particularly on Night Duty in the Metropolis ( London). My own father in 1938 as a young Constable in the Liverpool City Police carried a firearm on nights whilst patrolling the Liverpool docks because of IRA activity.

    Policing alters ever so slightly but all the time and Policing in the 21st Century is different than it was in 1972. The UK Police Officer in the year 2000 may have a totally different opinion than Officers of my generation on the rights and wrongs of permanently being armed. I just hope that SOMEONE in authority listens to what they have to say.

    Oisin Moonchild, Inspector of Police

    >Gunman Shoots At Police In London
    >Scotland Yard said that a gunman opened fire on police officers on Thursday as they pursued him in a high-speed car chase. No one was injured in the incident

  • Simon

    hmmn, the title "Why UK'ers bash America" does not seem to fit with the post ... anyway:

    a) we do not bash America

    b) we do not deny things that are wrong with our own country (unlike some people)

    The rise in violent crime is truly aweful and reflects badly on our society. We seem to copy a lot of things form other countries but I hope that having a very high long-term rate of violent crime isn't one of them.

    Of course, even with the recent rise it is still not as violent a place to live as some countries.

  • Jayson

    hmmn, the title "Why UK'ers bash America" does not seem to fit with the post ... anyway:

    Yes it does and I said why.

    a) we do not bash America

    Yes "we" do. (Only some people can't admit it.)

    b) we do not deny things that are wrong with our own country (unlike some people)

    Yes, "some" of us seem to not be able to admit some things. When these "backhanded slights" (unlike some people) are given "some" of the posters use namecalling like "asshole" and "hipocrite." Even if this was clearly not the intent. This goes unpunished when it is given by those with a certian opinion. Of course none of " we" ever do this.
    A nearly 30% rise in cases of rape. A nearly double diget rise in "stranger assult" and still a shift to America? Denial is bliss......not

    The rise in violent crime is truly aweful and reflects badly on our society. I agree. We seem to copy a lot of things form other countries Shifting the blame? but I hope that having a very high long-term rate of violent crime isn't one of them.If all that is understood is to blame others for your society because of it's own low morals, apathy, and weak minds this is a sad thing indeed. If crime were 10000% higher elsewhere or 10000% lower it is irrelevent to the society in question.

    Of course, even with the recent rise it is still not as violent a place to live as some countries. True, Iraq would suck, so would Somalia. I'm glad neither of us are there. In fact the last time this topic was touched I gave the stats that show the case you make. (US/UK that is) Then, like now, the UK facts are dismissed and slid to "other countries" as all that matters. I guess all countries should measure themselves against the USA. It is the best country to ever exist. (As a measuring stick that is.)

    What struck me is the comments that "people in the UK are not aware of how bad things are getting" & people being unaware makes me wonder if it is by design or, is it by desire? This came from an offical in that country. He claimed that manipulating data will not fool the public for ever. It seems that "some" have a mindset that no matter what is going on at home as long as things are worse elsewhere; yippy. I think that dangerous & shallow. I hope it the minority of Brits. I see my own country moving away from it's experiment in victimhoodism & guilt for success at full speed and it is about time!

  • Hamas

    I think that we should invite Jeremy Clarkson onto this forum,

    he is the man to represent us.

  • ignored_one

    "Why I have bee in my bonnet about Simon" would be a more fitting subject.

    Ignored One.

  • ballistic
    The BBC's Jane Peel: "Some crimes were never counted before"

    There was criticism that under the old system the figures recorded by the police in England and Wales did not accurately reflect crime. This is because not all crimes reported to the police were recorded by them. The change was made to try to give a fairer picture of crime as experienced by victims.

    How were crimes counted in the old system? How are they measured now?

    Under the old system if five cars were broken into in one car park, that would have been recorded as one crime. Now, this would be recorded as five crimes. This reflects the fact that there are five victims and - in reality - five offences. Also, under the old system some crimes did not have to be recorded by the police - these included common assault, drugs possession, cruelty to children and assault on a police officer. Now, these offences are recorded by the police.


  • ballistic

    Wednesday, 28 June, 2000, 23:32 GMT 00:32 UK UK crime worse, says US report Big Ben
    Last year 3.9 million US visitors came to London The Home Office has dimissed an American television report's claims that Britain is more violent than the US as a "simplistic comparison".

    The TV report, which followed news of an apparent drug rape of an American teacher in London, described the streets and shopping centres of Britain as a "battleground" of crime.

    CBS News called the UK one of the most violent urban societies in the western world, where people were more likely to be burgled, twice as likely to be robbed and two-and-a-half times more likely to be assaulted than in America.

    But the Home Office has hit back at the statistics, claiming that the average American is seven times more likely to be murdered than their British counterpart and 60 times more likely to be shot.

    The row came as government sources confirmed a crime summit will be held at Downing Street next week at which Prime Minister Tony Blair will urge police to cut violence and disorder.

    It is reported that chief constables from the Metropolitan, West Midlands, Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire forces will be given £20m to crack down on street crime.

    'Trivialised comparisons'

    Home Office Minister Charles Clarke dismissed the CBS News report as "absolute nonsense", saying the way offences were defined and collated varied from country to country.

    He told the BBC's Newsnight programme: "Violent crime is a very serious issue and needs to be very seriously addressed, but I don't think it's helped by the trivialised comparisons the CBS engaged in."

    Home Office figures showed the murder rate in the US in 1998 was 6.3 per 100,000 people compared with 1.4 per100,000 in England and Wales.

    The murder rate in London is 2.9 per 100,000 compared with 8.6 per 100,000 in New York and 49.15 per 100,000 in Washington DC.

    A report produced by the US Department of Justice in 1998 would appear to support the Home Office's claims.

    It shows the murder rate was 5.7 times higher in the US than England and Wales and the rape rate was about three times higher.

    The report also showed firearms were used in 68% of murders in the US compared with 7% in England and Wales, and in 41% of robberies in America against 5% in England and Wales.

    But the rates for assault, burglary and motor vehicle theft were all lower in America than in England and Wales.

    Americans watching the CBS report, which was also shown on Sky News, were presented with an alarming picture of Britain.

    CBS News anchorman Dan Rather said: "Now, like the US, the UK has a crime problem. And believe it or not, except for murder, theirs is worse than ours."

    He promised that: "Mayhem is on the way."

    News of the report was not welcomed by British tourism officials, who maintain that the country is still a safe place to visit.

    Last year 3.9 million US visitors came to Britain and this figure is expected to top four million this year.

    A statement from the London Tourist Board said the CBS report presented "an image of crime in Britain which is distinctly at odds with London's reputation as one of the safest, friendliest cities in the world".

    The board and the British Tourist Authority said they would monitor whether the story had an impact on visitor numbers.


  • ballistic

    Thefts of mobile phones in England and Wales have surged, with new research suggesting more than 700,000 were snatched last year.

    Officials say the increase in mobile phone theft has distorted otherwise generally falling crime rates.


  • Jayson

    Ballistic, 2 good articles thank you. & I do love the old only murder counts for violence argument. That one will never be played out over seas. Neither will the "guns thing."

    ignored one there are more brits than just simon. It's to bad all things are made into assults on or about him. Ah the price for being popluar. Another way of dodging the facts? It is also true that while some people can sure dish it out they can't take it. Hey Maybe look in the mirror would be a good title too...There are so many.

  • Jayson
    Officials say the increase in mobile phone theft has distorted otherwise generally falling crime rates.

    Well, thank god its not just traffic violations that are distorting the truth

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