Abraham's offspring

by nelim 3 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • nelim

    Interesting in a new video on tv jw org "Edward Aljian: An Important Reminder", from 6 minutes onwards. He asks a question about Abraham: "Couldn't Jehovah have spared Abraham a lot of grief by telling the promised offspring would be by Sara?"

    Jehovah only disclosed this when Ishmael was in his early teens. "Couldn't Jehovah have intervened when Sara began to offer Hagar as a concubine for Abraham?" (Because after this there was jealousy between Sara and Hagar).

    Now what is the simplest answer? If Jehovah is a loving, caring God, he would recognize the situation and intervene. He didn't. So either he is not caring or he doesn't exist at all. Unsurprisingly, this is not the conclusion Edward draws :D

    His "answer"? It's not really an answer to the original question "Could Jehovah have spared...", because answer to that is simple: Yes he could have spared him a lot of trouble. No, Edward goes on that Jehovah's communication with Abraham was not about "sparing Abraham from difficulties". No these communications were about "furthering developing Jehovah's purpose."

    So we did we learn today? Jehovah is a selfish God, he doesn't care about his (human) friends. (What an honor to be called "Jehovah's friend", right??). So spiritually uplifting and refreshing.

    "Abraham had to live as best they could with the decisions they've made." OH you mean just like if God would not have existed...? Go on...

    "Abraham's role did not exempt him from suffering, it meant just the opposite, remaining faithful to Jehovah despite the suffering." First, these are not opposites at all. Second, what good is such a friend? Imagine having your friend say: "Your role is remain my friend even though I'm not helping you when I could."

    "Jehovah treasured their integrity." Ahhh gives me such a warm feeling! Thank you!

  • Diogenesister

    Also, in what way did Abraham himself suffer? Hagar suffered, Ishmael suffered, Sara(h) suffered as did Issac. Abraham? Oh maybe he had to listen to a little nagging but generally he just got to take part in a little extra curricular bonking and got to be top dog by putting his son through sheer terror!

    Sounds to me like old Abe made the whole thing up to get away with being a real w@n£er!

  • ttdtt
    HAAA -- That is equivalent to asking "Could the Three little bears been spared the grief by just all living in the brick house?
  • millie210

    A friend just emailed me this video and said it was tremendous.


    I just listened to the whole 41 minutes (while reading here - truth be told) and found nothing remarkable about it whatsoever.

    HE talks about how hard it is to live at Bethel (glad someone admits that) and encourages those not in "Bethel service" to substitute the words faithful service.

    He tirelessly beats the drum that we have sadness and trials because it is Satans world. No mention of our lives being what we make of it.

    I guess that is the "hook" the spiritual balm for JWs...if you are hurting its because Satan HATES you for being such a good servant of Jah.

    If a message can be short term comforting and long term depressing that has to be it in a nutshell.

    Yes, it would be great if all lives ails were because we were good people but it is the trying to better things and succeeding that empowers us and brings us life satisfaction.

    JWs never get to experience that loop at all. Unless they quit being quite so "faithful" and just launch themselves in to life.

    How could I not see all this when I was in?

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