The Genesis 3:15 woman.

by Fisherman 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Jeffro

  waton:

  fisherman, yes she did, no human, and all the linage you talk about somehow has a human connection, exits without the genetic contribution of the first lady.

  Workers in that field traced all humans through the widely dispersed, well traveled "5 daughter of Eve", check it out.

  science will triumph over fantasies.

  Do you mean “7 daughters of Eve”? In any case, I do hope you’re not misrepresenting the expression ‘mitochondrial Eve’ as the actual character from the story in Genesis. ‘Mitochondrial Eve’ is simply a term used for the most recent common female ancestor of all living humans. It does not refer to a specific individual actually named ‘Eve’ and estimates would place that common ancestor over 150,000 years ago. The analogous ‘Y-chromosomal Adam’ is the most recent common male ancestor of all humans living now, but he was not a partner of ‘Mitochondrial Eve’ at all and current estimates place him significantly earlier. The names used for these terms are simply metaphors.
• 

  waton

  the actual character from the story in Genesis. ‘Mitochondrial Eve’ : Jeffro

  no misrepresentation here. I thought it was just fitting that the scientists would use the mystical ladies
  of genesis in their nomenclature.

  Good point about the single primitive male the "son of Adam" too, he was found to reside in the former Soviet Union territory, probably still is.
• 

  Jeffro

  waton:

  no misrepresentation here. I thought it was just fitting that the scientists would use the mystical ladies of genesis in their nomenclature.

  It’s just a recognised name that general readers can relate to, with an unfortunate consequence that it is sometimes misrepresented as the actual biblical character by people who don’t understand analogies and who want to pretend it supports their religious superstitions.

  Good point about the single primitive male the "son of Adam" too

  No, ‘Y-chromosomal Adam’ is not called “son of Adam”.

  he was found to reside in the former Soviet Union territory, probably still is.

  Also no, unless you consider somewhere around Cameroon to be in the former USSR. But you seem to be referencing either pseudoscience or science fiction.
• 

  Sea Breeze

  The woman mentioned in Genesis 3:15 is Eve. The serpent, addressed directly, is the animal that Satan used to deceive the woman. Some of the curse was directed at the animal (verse 14); at the same time, the curse of God falls upon Satan, who had taken the serpent’s form or body in Eden (cf. the dragon in Revelation 12:9)..... "THAT OLD SERPENT" (Rev. 20:2)
  
  As part of the curse, enmity—mutual hatred and ill will—will exist between the woman and the serpent. Later, the same enmity will continue between the woman’s seed or offspring (mankind in general, since Eve is the “mother of all living,” Genesis 3:20) and the serpent’s seed. Their offspring will remain enemies throughout all generations. The serpent’s (metaphorical) offspring are demonic forces and also those people who follow the devil and accomplish his will.

  Jesus called the Pharisees a “brood of vipers” in Matthew 12:34 and said they belonged to their “father, the devil” in John 8:44. In short, God says that Satan will always be the enemy of mankind. It follows that people who side with Satan will be at perpetual war with God’s elect and that we are engaged in a very real battle between good and evil (Ephesians 6:12).

  Men normally have the "seed". In Jesus' case, he is the only person born from the "seed of the the woman", since there was no male contributor of DNA.
  
  
• 

  Fisherman

  The woman mentioned in Genesis 3:15 is Eve.

  It is not: In the Bible, a descendent is the seed or offspring of a male. Although a woman gives birth or produces a child it is not her seed or offspring. Also, it was Mary and not Eve that gave birth to Jesus but neither women is the Genesis woman because the term seed referring to a woman’s offspring is not possible according to the Bible rule.

  Neither sinful Adam or Eve was the source of Jesus. Jesus descended from heaven and existed before.

  We @ JW believe that out of the angelic host came an angel (JC in prehuman existence) and God transformed his life to make Mary pregnant with it and produce JC the human son of God. Therefore, it was God who provided the promised seed but it was the the heavenly woman, all of the angels up there, that produced the seed. So, neither Eve nor Mary produced the seed and could never be the Genesis 3:15 woman. Jesus had no human father and interestingly his natural lineage is traced from Mary to Adam not Eve. And although Jesus is related to humanity through a female, Mary, his lineage is through males dating back to Adam not Eve.

  
  “26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.27For it is written: “Be glad, you barren woman who does not give birth; break into joyful shouting, you woman who does not have birth pains; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than those of her who has the husband.” This Scripture is referring to the Gen 3:15 woman.
• 

  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  The serpent, addressed directly, is the animal that Satan used to deceive the woman.

  The original story gives no indication that Satan was in any way involved whatsoever, either being the serpent, using the serpent or any other thing. Any involvement by Satan in the story is a later Christian invention. The involvement of a snake in the story is a common element with the Gilgamesh Epic from which the story is ultimately derived. (Also, the entire notion of Satan as a specific individual is a pagan belief that the Jews borrowed from the Persians, prior to which, satan was a generic term for any adversary.)
• 

  Fisherman

  The original story gives no indication that Satan was in any way involved whatsoever, either being the serpent

  The Christian Scriptures does.
  
  
• 

  Jeffro

  Fisherman:

  The Christian Scriptures does.

  Yes. I already clearly stated that the reinterpretation of the story to associate the serpent (from the Gilgamesh Epic) with Satan (the pagan Persian character) is a Christian invention. 🤷‍♂️
• 

  Fisherman

  reinterpretation of the story

  When solving an equation with given factors and values, the solution may be challenged or the equation or method used but the given values cannot be logically challenged. I don’t think you understand that the discussion is not about the validity of the Bible or whether or not Christianity harmonizes with the Hebrew Scriptures. They may or may not be valid arguments to attempt to debunk the Bible or Christianity but such arguments under this and other topics that assumes the Bible as true is a red herring. The aim here is to use the information in the Bible to find an answer. Whether the information is true or whether the answer is true is not the jurisdiction of this analysis. Capisci?
  
  
• 

  Jeffro

  🤦‍♂️ thanks for the circumlocution. Basically your argument is that if we assume all of your premises are true (or that the stories in the Bible can be harmonised in any manner that comports with reality) then your conclusions are also true, which is technically true but entirely pointless.

  (Also, any broad assertion that “the Bible” is ‘all true’ or ‘all false’ is a fallacy of composition.)

  But even if I were to play by your rules, your position is still wrong because you misrepresent the source material anyway.