Matthew 8:11 is FIGURATIVE, Matthew 8:12 is LITERAL

by Longlivetherenegades 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Longlivetherenegades
    Longlivetherenegades

    It is therefore evident that in Matthew 8:11 Jesus referred to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob FIGURATIVELY.............


    For this reason it became necessary that many Gentiles (non-Jews), like the Roman centurion whose faith brought a miraculous cure by Jesus, should come “from eastern parts and western parts,” from all around the earth, to become dedicated, baptized Christians..............

    The natural or fleshly Jews of the nation of Israel claimed to be the “sons of the kingdom” or the prospective members of God’s kingdom. From the day of Pentecost forward they saw the beginning and the gradual development of this theocratic arrangement, but because of their lack of faith in Christ they were not in it. Hence, as Jesus said (Matt. 8:12): “The sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.”

    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1962207

    Is Matthew 8:11 from the Watchtower literal and figurative simultaneously

    Is Matthew 8:11 figurative from the watchtower?

    Is Matthew 8:12 literal from the watchtower?

    What is your take?

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Everything literal unless the text says otherwise.

    Note: There is no such concept in the Bible of “resurrected to Spirit Life in heaven” like the Watchtower teaches.

    When a disembodied soul goes to heaven, that is not a resurrection.

    see more here: https://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-believers.html

    This scripture does not fit the WT narrative of the OT saints being resurrected to earth.... so they just wave the hand and declare it figurative.

    Good catch!

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Yes, the hope/destiny of the Jewish patriarchs is heaven as clarified in Matthew 8:11. They are described as sitting in the kingdom of heaven, I.e., that they will have rulership positions in heaven.

    This is confirmed in Hebrews

    HEBREWS 11: 8-10, 13-16:

    8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

    9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God....

    13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God.



  • JoenB75
    JoenB75

    1 Corinthians 15 is pretty clear that the destiny of man is to have an incorruptible heavenly / angelic body

  • Longlivetherenegades
    Longlivetherenegades

    That article of 1962 got me laughing the moment they INTRODUCED FIGURATIVE into the whole aspect and the article went to state.........

    The natural or fleshly Jews of the nation of Israel claimed to be the “sons of the kingdom” or the prospective members of God’s.

    The Jews were not claiming anything they knew ABRAHAM was their father, Jesus attest to it in John 8:56.

    Then this.........

    but because of their( the natural Jews and freshly Jews).........LITERALLY.......


    lack of faith in Christ they were not in it. Hence, as Jesus said (Matt. 8:12): “The sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.

    From their explanation

    Matthew 8:11 is figurative

    Matthew 8:12 is literal

    They were sons of the kingdom because they were descendants of Abraham literally not FIGURATIVELY.

  • Longlivetherenegades
    Longlivetherenegades

    @Vanderhoven

    I tend to see the import of the scriptures you cited when one look at what was stated in

    John 11: 12 from the days of John the Baptist until now the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal towards which men press and those pressing forward are seizing it.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Joen:

    The below is the Christian view - free of Watchtower spin.

    Matthew Henry Commentary on Matt. 15

    The grain undergoes a great change; and so will the dead, when they rise and live again. The seed dies, though a part of it springs into new life, though how it is we cannot fully understand. The works of creation and providence daily teach us to be humble, as well as to admire the Creator's wisdom and goodness. There is a great variety among other bodies, as there is among plants. There is a variety of glory among heavenly bodies.

    The bodies of the dead, when they rise, will be fitted for the heavenly bodies. The bodies of the dead, when they rise, will be fitted for the heavenly state; and there will be a variety of glories among them. Burying the dead, is like committing seed to the earth, that it may spring out of it again. Nothing is more loathsome than a dead body. But believers shall at the resurrection have bodies, made fit to be for ever united with spirits made perfect. To God all things are possible.

    He is the Author and Source of spiritual life and holiness, unto all his people, by the supply of his Holy Spirit to the soul; and he will also quicken and change the body by his Spirit. The dead in Christ shall not only rise, but shall rise thus gloriously changed. The bodies of the saints, when they rise again, will be changed. They will be then glorious and spiritual bodies, fitted to the heavenly world and state,

    It is an error to imagine those resurrected as having a disembodied state like an angel or a spirit. The very term "resurrection" means a reintegration of the soul, body and spirit of man. Remember, man is not whole without the body, soul and spirit all joined together.

    "the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved..." - 1 Thess. 5: 23

    The picture of resurrection given in 1 Cor. 15 is that of a person's actual body, soul & spirit re-joined together , and having been given a major systems upgrade.... perhaps some sort of interdimensional capability. But it must be the person's actual body (along with his spirit and soul) else a resurrection has not occurred.

    The dead souls in heaven in Rev 6 were comforted there, but not yet "whole" - "I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held - Rev. 6: 9-11



    Jesus actual body was brought back to life, or else a resurrection did not occur and we are without Hope

    1 Cor. 15: 16-17 For if the dead [bodies] rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ [body] be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

    Note: Only the body needs raising, the soul and the spirit do not need raising.

    Jesus, in his actual body.... not an apparition, appeared to the disciples after his resurrection. However, it was a glorified body; One that could appear in rooms without opening the door. One that could rise to heaven as his disciples saw him leave.

    John 20: 25 So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

    And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”28And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

    Our bodies will "be like him" when resurrected.... not angels. We will have our own body, joined to our own spirit and soul and will be capable of living in heaven AND earth.

    Our citizenship is in heaven but we shall rule in and over the earth during the Millennium. This is a "systems upgrade" of the human body, never before seen before the ascension.

    Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature - 2 Cor. 5:17

    1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him

    This scripture is speaking of when Jesus appears in the clouds (not the 2nd coming 7 years later). At that time, the trump will sound and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then, we who are alive shall meet the lord in the air - 1 Thess. 4: 17

    Hops this helps.

  • johnamos
    johnamos

    1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one...50 But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Sinful flesh and blood cannot enter heaven. But a glorified body can:

    Philippians 3:21 - Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


    Luke 24:39

    39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

  • EverApostate
    EverApostate

    Bible says

    The earth is supported by Pillars - Take it Figurative

    The Earth hangs upon nothing -- Take it Literal

    Adjust your thinking accordingly and have eternal life

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