by jp1692 45 Replies latest members private
I think having a faith that death is not the end can add happiness to ones life.
I dont think you can dispute that too much.
Having lost all my faith, that something that I dont have anymore and that has not been a positive.
That said - reality is reality.
NewYork44M: I know I am much happier without religion. Having a religion as a chain around my neck was dreadful.
As an ex-JW cult member I certainly feel your pain.
That being said, it is important to separate our personal experience from the broader question.
Not all religions are created equal. Some religions are relatively benign and offer all of the benefits that contribute to personal happiness with very little downside. Others—particularly high-control, authoritarian sects (aka: cults)—are very damaging, both to the individual and their interpersonal relationships.
David Jay: I am a Jew, and I say "no." But those without aren't any happier either.
You raise an interesting point. The OP question--Are religious people happier?--is really a false dichotomy, as if there are only two choices. Clearly there are not.
But religious apologists like to frame the argument this way. This is why I began with their question which I then deconstruct in my essay.
David Jay: Religion in and of itself does not guarantee an extra amount of happiness or bring any extra amount of sadness to anyone.
While I would agree with the first part of your statement, I cannot agree with the second. Although not all religions are created equal (see my comment to NY44M above), many cause much unnecessary harm--and thereby resulting sadness--to countless people that have been adversely affected by them.
Ruby: Religion with its focus on justice for all tends to alleviate such feelings. However, a sense of spirituality could help one develop a sense of justice for all but as you say JP it will take much hard work.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
You seem to be implying in the statement I quoted above that a person could not have a "sense of justice" without religion or spirituality. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Could you please clarify?
Without getting sidetracked in the very diverse meanings people have regarding "spirituality," could you explain what you mean. For I am completely convinced that people can and do have a sense of justice absent from any religious and/or spiritual influences.
Here is a link to an essay was written by Frank Zindler, former President and current Board Member of American Atheists. You may find it informative:
jp1692 wrote:
While I would agree with the first part of your statement, I cannot agree with the second.
I didn't know this was going to be a thread in which you graded us based on what you agreed with and what you did not agree about our statements.
What I remembered you writing in your original post was:
I would appreciate any and all that read my essay--and I welcome your comments, feedback and suggestions...I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on the subject. That alone would make me happy.
Suddenly coming back and telling us what you don't like about what we wrote or what you don't agree with sounds a lot less like curiousity and happiness and more like being judgy and not realizing how you come across hurtful, at least to this person here. This feels like this was more of a test and a trap than a place where I was free to share my comments in a non-judgmental "happy place" as you made it sound.
You're not a religion or a religious person, am I right? But look, at how you've made me feel? Congratulations. You are no different from what you are condemning.
DJ: I didn't know this was going to be a thread in which you graded us based on what you agreed with and what you did not agree about our statements.
Wow, sorry, your feelings are hurt, David. That wasn't my intention, but this IS a discussion board. As you'll recall, I began my post by stating, "Not too long ago a friend and I were discussing various aspects of our recovery from being in and leaving the JW cult." The origin of this was discussion.
Often the most interesting conversations occur as a result of disagreement.
Did you notice that I began my response to your post with a compliment, saying "You raise an interesting point. "?
Please reread my response and understand that I am disagreeing with only some of what you wrote, not all, and judging none of it. The judgment part is coming from you.
Cheers,
jp
The judgment part is coming from you.
How did the judgment come from me? I didn't write your words. I didn't feel judged until I read them. If you had never written them I would have never felt this way. So your action started it.
If it came from me, you wouldn't even had had to exist in the first place. That type of reasoning doesn't make sense.
Post script:
I am an adult survivor of child abuse. Both of my parents were involved in the abuse. Let me compare one of their excuses I will never forget to what you just said.
"I was merely punishing you the best way I could. So I broke your nose once or twice and maybe got more rough with you than I should have, but I wasn't setting out to abuse you. You're the one labeling it abuse."
Please reread my response and understand that I am disagreeing with only some of what you wrote, not all, and judging none of it. The judgment part is coming from you.
I didn't write my comment to have you come along and start telling me what was wrong with it in the manner you did. I didn't know you were going to go over out comments this way. It's the way you did it. It was very judgmental. Maybe it was my particular point of view, but just as yours is worth something, so is mine.
To make such selective agreements or disagrements is passing judgment on our comments. I wasn't the one who did that. You did.
Hitting a kid to the point of breaking bones and drawing blood over and over again is child abuse and reading others comments and saying what you agree with and saying what you can't agree with is judging them.
I don't care if you don't agree with that. My parents couldn't face the truth either.
David, I'm sorry you were abused. Most of us here were too.
But for you to equate my disagreeing with you about a point you made in a post on an online forum with physically abusing a child as you described, well that is just absurd.
If you can discuss this topic rationally and in the spirit of the OP, I would welcome that. If you want an argument, I'm not interested.
jp
Since I take "religious" to mean observing rituals, holidays, and routines as they pertain to a particular set of beliefs by a organized group. Attending a place of worship, or participating in rites and ceremonies like baptisms, mass, call to prayer and all the parphanalia connected to a belief system etc etc.
A religious to-do list may add to a feeling of satisfcation of crossing stuff off a list in the company of other people crossing stuff off a list all to ease an internal unspoken sense of obligation to "do something" so I spose a sense of relief, belonging, comraderie and community can be associated with it and so yes that can contribute to happiness but is that true happiness?
"The tolling of the iron bell draws the faithful to their knees to hear the softly spoken magic spell." Pink Floyd.
