Not JW related, but should the electoral college be abolished?

by Billzfan23 29 Replies latest jw friends

  • Billzfan23

    Elizabeth Warren, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, and other Democrats are openly expressing interest (and in come cases, campaign promises) that the electoral college has to go. I disagree for a few reasons. First, the 25 states (out of 50, so 50%) with the smallest populations only get 21% of the electoral college votes (in our current system, today). Second, a candidate losing the popular vote but winning the electoral vote (and the presidency) has happened only a few times - there have been 58 elections, and in 53 of them - the popular vote winner has also won the election.

    Abraham Lincoln (and later Donald Trump) are the two most famous examples, with Bush running a distant third. Lincoln lost the popular vote, won the electoral vote, and famously abolished slavery. If he doesn't win because of the popular vote/electoral discrepancy, who knows how many additional generations carry on with slavery - or if civil war would have ever ensued.

    My stance is that we are not a democracy, we are a constitutional republic (when it comes to voting). There are 3,141 counties in the United States. Trump won 3.084 of them. Clinton won 57 counties. She also won the popular vote because the Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Richmond, and Queens allowed her to get 1.5 million more overall/total votes than Trump.

    My opinion is that a few select counties in the US that have extremely high popuations (LA/Hollywood/NYC/Chicago) would be able to decide the winner of EVERY election until the end of time if the electoral college is gotten rid of. However, over 60% of people believe that the electoral college should be terminated and that we should go to a popular vote.

    Another factor is that if there are only 100 or so counties in the whole country that matter, candidates will completely stop campaigning in any state that isn't one of those 5 major metropolitan areas. They would effectively have zero incentive to go elsewhere.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    It's clear what's going on: Democrats such as Elizabeth Warren and Alex Cortez are throwing their toys out the pram because they lost the last election.

    Getting rid of the electoral college would allow the Democrats a stranglehold on all future elections.

    You're correct - the US isn't a democracy, it's a constitutional republic.

  • truth_b_known

    The U.S. is a collection of 50 sovereign states. Abolishing the Electoral College would mean that California and New York would decide the outcome of every Presidential Election. Not even New York state, but the City of New York.

    Democracies fail. The U.S. is not a democracy. Never was. It should never be.

  • I believe in overlapping
    I believe in overlapping

    The Electoral college protects us from mob mentality majority rule. The founding fathers saw this could easily happen if say the populations of the nation shifted to some extreme religious majority. For example; say an influx of extreme religious advocates for killing apostates and non-believers immigrated into a country like the USA with open borders. Then it would be an easy thing for the majority to manipulate the voting and install a president that would enforce the religious extremist's views on politics and religious belief.

    This is what the electoral was design to prevent.

  • nonjwspouse

    Considering the disaster of the direct voting process in Germany during Hitler's time, I think the founding fathers had it right . After freedom of West Germany, they too decided on an indirect vote with an "electoral college" of their own.

    The 1932 election was the second of only two direct presidential elections of the Weimar period. When after World War II the modern office of German Federal President was established in 1949, following the restoration of democracy in West Germany, it was decided that the president would be chosen indirectly by means of a Federal Convention consisting of parliamentarians and state delegates. To date, therefore, the 1932 election was the last occasion on which a direct presidential election has occurred in Germany.

  • redvip2000
    The founding fathers saw this could easily happen if say the populations of the nation shifted to some extreme religious majority. For example; say an influx of extreme religious advocates for killing apostates and non-believers immigrated into a country like the USA with open borders.

    Shocking how other countries have been able to survive without this. I personally usually reject any "founding fathers" argument, because I find it similar to the drivel coming from religious sectors that advocate that we must abide by some rule, because some minds dreamt some shit up thousands of years ago.

    I'm mostly interested if it makes sense today regardless of what someone thought hundreds of years ago. To me, everybody in this country should have a voice, and the reality is that this is not the case. On any given presidential election, millions upon millions of votes across the nations are pointless. If you are republican, and you live in New York or California, you might has well wipe your ass with your ballot, because you are wasting your time. If you are a Democrat and you live in South Dakota you can do the same.

    While this is happening we complain that many people don't bother voting, while we continue to be ok with large portions of the votes being pointless.

  • DesirousOfChange

    Two houses of Congress (one with every State having equal representation, and one with representatives based on population) was a brilliant idea, and without it the US would likely be 50 different nations (or at least a dozen of so). It keep things "balanced" between the big (populous) and small (less populated) States.

    The Electoral College was based on this same principle. It's overhaul (or overthrow) is only being discussed by the disgruntled losers in the most recent elections. It's not broken. It's working exactly as was intended. If ain't broke, don't fix it.

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic

    I think our Republic is best served when the population receives fair representation from it's elected officials. The Electoral College does not practice fair representation. It is an atavism from a bygone age and gives disproportionate value to individual voters. For example, voters in Alaska get far more representation in a presidential election than voters in California do.

    This is not how we conduct local races, state races, or elections for other federal offices. And it's an exception we shouldn't be making for our Presidential elections.

  • minimus

    Other than Coded Logic, all your comments were spot on! There’s a reason why the Electoral College has been a success!

  • Giordano
    The Electoral college protects us from mob mentality majority rule

    Who protects those of us who were in the majority ...... by 2.9 million honest votes? The Electoral College can ignore 2.9 million votes with 275 votes.

    One person, one honest vote......... should mean something!

    The Electoral College no longer serves a purpose.

    The reasons for which the Founding Fathers created the Electoral College are no longer relevant. Modern technology allows voters to get necessary information to make informed decisions in a way that could not have been foreseen by the Founding Fathers. Also, while Alexander Hamilton in 1788 saw the electors as being "free from any sinister bias," members of the Electoral College are now selected by the political parties and they are expected to vote along party lines regardless of their own opinions about the candidates. [7] [4] [16]
    Senators, once appointed by state legislatures, are now elected directly by popular vote.
    The Electoral College gives too much power to "swing states" and allows the presidential election to be decided by a handful of states.
    The Electoral College ignores the will of the people. There are over 300 million people in the United States, but just 538 people decide who will be president.

    Every vote should count!

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