Could they make not donating a disfellowshipping offence?

by purrpurr 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • OneEyedJoe

    They can do whatever the hell they want. That's part of the allure of being a cult leader. Though I don't think they will, mainly for the reasons already stated here. They'd have trouble selling it, and there are enough of those that are donating that would stop if they push too hard and in the wrong way.

    They've already shown their plans on how they're going to try to raise the funds, and they're fairly clever. Things like the congregation-level tithe work perfectly because it puts the pressure on the elders to pressure the members. The elders aren't getting directly beaten up about their contributions, but since they have to give local needs parts and announce the shortfall, many will give more to avoid seeing themselves as hypocrites. At the same time the members see the pressure from the elders as a local issue, not a systemic one and they have their excuse for the hypocrisy.

    They're doing the same thing with the assembly hall costs - raising per-publisher rates to create a group debt, then pressuring everyone to pay it off. They're also doing more special events with live streams and ordering that any funds donated at the kingdom hall for those events be sent in to the org. They do a pretty good job of keeping everything a group debt and letting elders do the legwork. They also do a pretty good job of making the R/F think they're actually getting something whenever there's a money grab - assemblies, "forgiven" loans and the LDC handles your remodel, etc. Of course they don't actually get anything, but as long as they create the appearance most JWs will go along because they don't want to see it for what it is.

    In line with what Vidiot was saying - they'd probably not make it a DF offense anyway, because the whole point of such a policy would be to get people to donate more, they would probably use punishments that are more easily revoked once it has the desired effect.  If you started DFing people for not donating (especially those that just couldn't raise the cash at the time) a lot of those would never come back.  If you use social pressure, they'll stick around and start donating when they can.

  • millie210

    Toes up that is genius!

    I wouldnt be at all surprised!

  • aboveusonlysky

    I could see them wanting to keep tabs on contributions more as time goes on, remember the handing out slips last year for publishers to write what they were willing to contribute? Many genuine jdubs were shocked at that one.

    Contributions to have a column on field service reports? They could say it was for tax reasons and then push the publishers for bank transfers rather than cash to limit the amount of jdubs that would inevitably lie, also contributions would be taken into account when privileges were discussed at elders meetings .

    They love keeping records and power hungry brothers would like it too as it would be a way to literally buy yourself a position, it would also be another way to identify faders.......I really hope they don't read this and get ideas!

  • millie210

    They aleady have "tithing lite" in the form of those forms you are supposed to fill out saying what you will contribute.

    I cant remember what the forms are called.

  • LisaRose

    They have taken Kingdom Halls built with free labor and paid for by individual congregations and sold them for a profit regardless of the impact to those who used them, taken possession of funds previously kept by the congregations, given the boot to workers who gave their life to the religion and who were promised a home for life, engaged in reporting phoney "deficits" at conventions and taken to constant begging, but no they will never pass a collection plate, because that would be sooooo evil.

  • MarkofCane

    They will implement 10% tithing or a lesser amount based on ability, it's coming. They will set up a system where you can only contribute through a debit or credit card. If you must donate in cash they will inquire 'why not just deposit and use debit instead'. If you insist in cash they will want you to hand it to them so they can give you a receipt, they will eventually remove all donation boxes and push for automatic monthly payments set up through your bank, this way they can track who's tithing and who's not. Obviously they will not admit they want to track contributions they will allude to some accounting simplicity reason. They might leave a box for the new ones and visitors but they will ask baptized members to follow direction in this loving provision.

    Checks are a thing of the past they will accept them and work's for tracking purposes, but with all the fraud happening they will have a local needs explaining why its better to just do debit or credit it's safer, more convenient and some level of bank protection if their is fraud. They will also explain that the money will be transferred almost immediately unlike checks their is sometime as much as 5-7 day waiting period.

    Time's are changing everything is going electronic transfer and banking, I no longer write out checks its 99% electronic banking for us and my business.

    I don't believe it will be a disfellowshiping offense but it will mark the one's not contributing as week or dissenting from the flock. If this seems unlikely remember what you thought about the internet and TV evangelism.

  • sir82

    DFing, no.

    But only granting "privileges" (elder, pioneer, etc.) to those who give evidence of contributing? I can conceive of it.

  • Vidiot

    millie210 - "...I cant remember what the forms are called."

    "Toilet paper"? :smirk:

  • xjwsrock

    I agree with MarkofCane.

    I'm not sure how many are aware of this, but jworg accepts donations already on the website. A person can also setup recurring donations (how nice of them). I can see them pushing this a bit in the future and expecting publishers in good standing to have an automatic draft setup.


    One point that I think about is the commingling of funds between local and branch that you have now. I think this has overall decreased cash flow for the org. They just couldn't resist the temptation to snag local money a couple of years ago and now they step in periodically and pressure congregations to give their "surplus" to the branch. The CO looks at the accounts now to find surplus funds for the branch on each visit.

    You used to see certain JWs that would give money to the local congregation but not to the branch. I assume that these individuals were more comfortable seeing their money put to good use in a tangible way at the local level. With this money grabbing from the branch, these "local contributors" are not nearly as prevalent. There's no sure way to give money now and it not get grabbed up by "mother".

    The only way I donate is if I am buying something specific for the hall or giving my time to hall maintenance. I do not put money in the box at all. I am not alone in this.

  • MarkofCane
    This will be the way of the future, the older one's that might object or have a hard time with tithing or electronic transfers, well sad to say they will be dying off and of little concern to the org. The new generation (overlapping generation) will be more acceptable to this since this is pretty normal to them. The kingdom halls are massive cash makers, once they are not producing they will be sold off. This is not the same organization you where born in, it's purely business now.

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