DNA and evolution

onacruse

DWiltshire recently had a very good thread on this subject:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/46578/1.ashx

I just read an article in the September 2003 Discover. In the article "Great Mysteries of Human Evolution" there is a sub-topic "What Genes Make Us Human?" There is some info there that I didn't see specifically discussed in D's thread. A partial quote (bold added):

In April 2003, geneticists finished sequencing the human genome, and now they're well on their way to decoding the genome of one of our closest relatives, the common chimpanzee. The sight of these two sequences placed side by side is astonishing. For thousands of positions at a stretch, their codes are identical. [Researchers] analyzed the portions of DNA that are responsible for the structure of proteins. In this crucial part of the genome, humans and chimps were 99.4 percent identical.

I find it very fascinating that there is such a remarkable similarity of DNA; too much for coincidence, imo.

A little background: About 10 years ago, a good friend shared with me his research on the Evolution book, and from that time forward, even though I was still a JW for several years, I "secretly" believed in divinely guided evolution. The evidence just seemed too overwhelming. And now, this new evidence about DNA.

Should it really be so hard to imagine that God could create man in whatever manner He chose? Including evolution?

Craig

rocketman

Should it really be so hard to imagine that God could create man in whatever manner He chose? Including evolution?

In my view, if the evidence points in that direction, then it's not hard to imagine, and I do think there is some compelling evidence for evolution.

drwtsn32

Craig, your quote on DNA similarities between species is one of the several reasons I believe evolution is a fact. However, I don't believe in God-directed evolution... it is not compatible with core teachings in the bible.

While I was still a JW, I considered "secretly" believing in evolution. But it didn't take me long to realize this is incompatible with so much of the bible. Very crucial parts of the bible. If evolution had occurred, homo sapiens would not have started with a single pair: Adam and Eve. This causes problems with original sin, the passing down of that sin, and hence the need for Jesus' sacrifice.

How do you reconcile this in your mind?

As it stands now, I don't believe in the bible or a god. All throughout mankind's history gods have been created. I don't think the god of the bible is any different.

Just my 0.02, if it's even worth that much.

shamus

In April 2003, geneticists finished sequencing the human genome, and now they're well on their way to decoding the genome of one of our closest relatives, the common chimpanzee. The sight of these two sequences placed side by side is astonishing. For thousands of positions at a stretch, their codes are identical. [Researchers] analyzed the portions of DNA that are responsible for the structure of proteins. In this crucial part of the genome, humans and chimps were 99.4 percent identical.

As a matter of fact most DNA is pretty identical in mammals. This is nothing new.... the difference between man and other mammals is quite minimal.

When they say that it's 99.4 percent identical, you have no idea the concept of how many bases they are talking about, too. That is why it took about 20 years (or more!) just to map out human DNA.

Shamus.

Satanus

It's evolution alright. I don't see any other reason for those results. Saying the commonly accepted western god did it though, is a huge leap of/over logic, imo. They say chance did it. Pure chance?? May i suggest chance plus something, something scientists haven't worked into the equation. Something they haven't detected as of yet.

SS

rem

say chance did it. Pure chance?? May i suggest chance plus something, something scientists haven't worked into the equation. Something they haven't detected as of yet.

Utterly false. Evolution is not chance. Natural selection is not random. And yes, scientists have worked it into the equation and it works quite well. BTW, natural selection was detected around 150 years ago.

rem

OICU8it2

I believe we are genetically close even to plant life. The problem I have with an unguided evo are the odds of random generation of complex design products even parallel occurences. But that is even more true with the chances of a universe as ordered as it is being the result of some random quantum-vacuum fluctuation. It is obvious to me that there has been a steady growth in complexity to the human brain and lots of precursors and I can't reconcile that yet. Previous creatures seemed to be evolving. But, I have an open mind.

Satanus

Rem

Doesn't the theory go that changes in organisms are by chance, and then forces in nature decide which survive?

SS

rem

SS,

It is true that mutations are by and large random, but mutations on their own are not evolution. The theory of evolution includes selective pressure, such as natural selection which works on the random mutations and shapes the gene pool. This is a non-random process.

Think of it this way, I can type the sequence "12345" by typing gibberish numbers with just a simple filtering rule (natural selection):

72543
42447
42545827451244512345

Here I got a non-random sequence with just random typing and a simple filter to save the good bits (I left out a few steps for brevity sake). Of course this is a gross oversimplification of what natural selection really does but hopefully the illustration shows why it is a completely non-random process.

rem

onacruse

rem, you present an interesting challenge.

I believe in god for philosophical reasons, but that's not relevant to this discussion.

I also believe in god for physical reasons, including, as others here have mentioned, the apparent (to me)need for a "guiding principle" in the development of an increasingly complex DNA structure. That one "form" led to another is not an issue for me; but how did it happen?

So I'm particularly interested in how the "selective pressure" process you refer to might be reconciled with entropic processes.

Craig

DNA and evolution

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