The Bible - God's Word or Man's

by truth_b_known 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • PaddyTheBaddy
    PaddyTheBaddy
    PTB: are you defending the divine origin of the scriptures?

    No matter how I look at it, I can't help but conclude, that the origin of the scriptures is related to the origin of the universe. If all that exists is the material world, existing uncaused as a brute fact, then the scriptures are a product of the universe in the same way mankind is a product of the universe.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bwOIE9GXKM

    If the universe has a cause, then a reasonable case can be made that this cause is something beyond the material universe, something immaterial, spaceless and timeless. If this turns out to be a mind, then everything including the scriptures must have some connection to this mind.

  • PaddyTheBaddy
    PaddyTheBaddy
    A parent doesnt allow the kids to figure things out by themselves. Its dangerous for the kids too. And god allowed nearly 5600 Years for mankind to figure out that diseases are caused by germs ? And that the earth spins around the sun ?

    I'm afraid all I can say is God must have different ideas on what parenting involves. His view on things has a longer range, so maybe this is a factor?

    How about stoning a man to death because he picked up sticks on the Sabbath
    How about owning slaves as well as beating them. These are all gods commands.
    How about Jesus saying "Leave your family and come after me". "Hate your family and come after me"

    I never understood why stoning was used as a means of killing?

    Did God not just tolerate man's desire to have slaves and provide rules to regulate it? in the same way he tolerated men wanting to have multiple wives.

    I accept these things are very difficult to make sense of, especially from our limited perspective on things. I personally take hope from the fact that at least we recognise these things challenge our moral sense.

    If there is an afterlife, some if not all of these things may be better understood in light of what God was in the process of accomplishing. Unfortunately, without an afterlife our desire for understanding and justice will never be satisfied.

  • PaddyTheBaddy
    PaddyTheBaddy
    How about Pauls advise that "Women should not speak in the congreagation"
    I think this may be one of those instances where it was just an opinion expressed by Paul.
  • waton
    waton
    How about Pauls advise that "Women should not speak in the congreagation"
    I think this may be one of those instances where it was just an opinion expressed by Paul.

    PTB, no, in verse 37 of ICor14 he declares it to be the "Lord's commandment" and:

    If the bible is a product of the universe's intelligence heritage, do you think that is true of other holy writings too? They are just as an oddball read!

  • PaddyTheBaddy
    PaddyTheBaddy
    PTB, no, in verse 37 of ICor14 he declares it to be the "Lord's commandment" and:

    I think you could argue that Paul needed an argument from authority in his attempt to get the Corinthians to listen to his council. The Corinthians questioned his apostleship which meant they didn't have much regard for his teaching. When Paul wrote to Timothy he stated that he did not permit a woman to teach.

    1 Timothy 2:12

    I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

    He couldn't use the same approach with the Corinthians because many of them didn't care what Paul thought. This may be why Paul referred to what the law stated in order to add some weight to his argument for women to remain silent.

    1 Corinthians 14:34

    Women are to be silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

    Paul didn't actually believe christians where under obligation anymore to keep the whole law. He didn't believe in circumcision so no one was yoked to the law. He expresses his thoughts in Galatians below. Also Jesus never silenced any woman. The first person he revealed his identity to was a woman who went off and told everyone.

    It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. 2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. . . . 13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, " YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. "

    If the bible is a product of the universe's intelligence heritage, do you think that is true of other holy writings too? They are just as an oddball read!

    Yes it goes for every book ever written not just holy ones. The only way around this is to believe in free will. If you believe in free will then you aren't far from believing in some form of dualism or separation between mind and body.

  • waton
    waton
    Yes it goes for every book ever written not just holy ones.

    PTB, of course the wt favourite " ALL scripture is inspired--" supports your view, ha ha. and it is true that without the eternal energy and fitting laws, the universe with us, would not exist. but the bible fan's special claim goes beyond that.

    There are a few appropriate verses among the ~ 50 000, though, . One example in this week's zooming:

    "Earth hanging on nothing" but actually hanging, against gravity by the "dynamic" energy of it's velocity, creating the centrifugal force. One could hardly call energy "nothing". and

    the lacking support is seen in the fuzzy image of the shadow of the earth against the moon in an eclipse. so, no secret to any observant ancients.

  • PaddyTheBaddy
    PaddyTheBaddy
    There are a few appropriate verses among the ~ 50 000, though, . One example in this week's zooming:
    "Earth hanging on nothing" but actually hanging, against gravity by the "dynamic" energy of it's velocity, creating the centrifugal force. One could hardly call energy "nothing". and

    God could have opted for general relativity, the ancient mind most likely would have struggled to understand it.

    the lacking support is seen in the fuzzy image of the shadow of the earth against the moon in an eclipse. so, no secret to any observant ancients.
    It's still a secret to many modern day observers who believe the earth is flat.
  • waton
    waton
    It's still a secret to many modern day observers who believe the earth is flat.

    PTB the earth was flat during the temptation of Jesus, a really high mountain would, on a clear day you the Chinese empire beyond the himalayas. The Incas and Mayas too. Even in 1054 years from now, the Earth will have 4 corners again, , ( or be a 3 cornered pyramid perhaps to have volume)?

    God could have opted for general relativity, the ancient mind most likely would have struggled to understand it.

    He did, e = mc^2, in Isaiah 40:26. stars made from energy. one of the handful of scriptures that come close to reality.

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