"Death will be no more" - ONLY earthly blessing?

by TheWonderofYou 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  TheWonderofYou

  Todays daily text refers to a new? explanation for doorkeepers that "Death will be no more" would only refer to an earthly blessing, because it would be logically according to the text that in heaven no one ever died or death had never been there. Seems like wishful argument for the earthly paradise.

  Dont forget the 144000 members of the heavenly class that will receive heavenly blessing after death and used for decades Rev. 21,4 in field service. Would not for them "death will be no more" apply too, when they switched from earthly sphere to heavenly sphere?

  So for one of the anointed who got to heaven after many years of earthly service the "death will be no more" (Rev.21,4) would apply too. Then logically "death no more" has as as result not solely an "earthly" blessing but as result a "heavenly" blessing too .

  Otherwise the anointed shall not sing the kingdom songs any longer or use the passage if it had no heavenly blessing too.

  
  

  We could ask the person if he agrees that in order for something to be no more, it had to exist in the first place. Likely, he will say yes. Then we could point out that there has never been death in heaven; people die only here on earth. Logically, then, Revelation 21:4 must be referring to future blessings here on earth.
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  sir82

  "Logically"????

  John Smith lives in the Australian Outback. There is very little water there. He gets tired of always having to save water. He wants to move where he no longer has to worry about water shortages.
  

  He decides to move to the Big Island of Hawaii, to a little village which gets 300 inches of rain a year.

  When he moves, for him, "drought will be no more".

  Per Watchtower "logic", then, the Australian Outback will become a tropical rainforest, since there has never been a drought in that small Hawaiian village.

  Well, at least it makes more sense than "overlapping generations".
  
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  truthwillsetyoufree

  I've always associated heaven with the spirit world in general. Heaven isn't a physical place like the earth is. But whilst in heaven satan and a whole multitude of angels rebelled. And these ones are now destined for the fiery gehenna - in other words these ones will be destroyed, in other words, they will die. But they are spirit and live in the spirit realm. So there must be death in the spirit realm.

  Now, I was always told that Jehovah is currently allowing all sorts of governments to rule over mankind to prove to not only us but also to all the angles that no government but Jehovahs can affectively rule over the earth. When he does away with them at armageddon he will then place his kingdom on the earth. From that time onwards he would never again allow his rule to be questioned as he would now have proved his full right to rule. So should anyone turn away from jehovah in paradise that one would be struck down immediately. So what would happen if an angel in heaven should once again behave like satan and his demons? Would jehovah let him behave rebelliously or will he kill him?

  The understanding i was led to believe that after paradise comes anyone who goes against jehovah, e8ther on earth or in heaven, would immediatelt be destroyed, killed, taste death. So to say that there isnt death in heaven, or ever would be, seems to be an illogical conclusions. The scriptures also do not explicitly say that death does or does not occur in heaven so teach dogmatically either way goes beyond scripture.

  Personally i believe, when it says no more death, that this was given to mankind. So to me it is referring to the earthly, natural death that everyone ultimately experiences - which we experience because of adamic death if you believe in that. I belive this is the death that would be done away with. But if someone rebels against god again then god wouldnt allow so a thing to continue again so death would have to take place.

  Of course everything ive just said could be completely wrong. Its just my own thoughts which continue to change based on my own understanding, experience and ignorance.
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  Terry

  This video is well-researched and makes a rather stunning point I hadn't thought about before.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7tElizrKf0
  
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  Crazyguy

  Revelations clearly shows that the first resurrection is only for those that were killed as martyrs for Christ all others that have died have to wait 1000 years then be resurrected in to a time where Satan is let loose a time of judgment. So much for death being no more.
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  leaving_quietly

  Logically, then, Revelation 21:4 must be referring to future blessings here on earth.

  Well, duh... Revelation 21:2 says that, Sherlock! "I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
  
  
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  TheWonderofYou

  I was quite irritated too by the course of the events from now on until the "new heavens and new earth", what would be the last blessing and would not happen before the 1000 years of horrible examinations have ended.

  I always thought that soon after the 1000 year paradise would begin, the resurrection would start and that was for me same as the "tears will be no more, death will be no more" becoming true. (21:4)

  But in reality in the course of events as presented in Revelation this "earthly blessing" is not happening within the 1000 years at all, but only after them. Revel. 21:1-4 is the ultimate event.

  Thats the big problem that arises: That "Tears will be no more, death now more" is part of a single event once happening as last dimension in the  "new heavens and new earth" and not before ...

  But the 1000 year millenium is taught to happen before the new heavens and new earth will come into existence and it would last 1000 years. And as the the millenium is not the same as the new heavens and new earth how could death be no more be part of the milllenium?

  This would lead to the thesis that the resurraction in the millenium of unrightous is not the end for the adamic death yet, and that people will die in the millenium, no ever regenerating bodies, no automatic healing the rising unrighteous but they will have to wait for the Heavens&earth event to become again resurrected.

  Since such a  multiple resurraction and dying would be senseless, something in the whole stories does not fit together 

  
  
  

  leaving_quietly

  Yes I am glad to know of the blessing that God is coming out of heaven is close to us, even so close that God calls the mankind - the bride of christ - with a special name "city of God", Gods "New Jerusalem". That is an indication that within the congregation the hope of new jerusalem becomes visible already in the present time, because the bride of christ already exists now and not only after the millenium.
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  TheWonderofYou

  Yes I am glad to know of the blessing that God is coming out of heaven is close to us, even so close that God calls the mankind - the bride of christ - with a special name "city of God", Gods "New Jerusalem".

  That is an indication that within the congregation the hope of new jerusalem becomes visible already in the present time, because the bride of christ already exists now and not only after the millenium.

  It means too that the congregation is called to become a happy city, to the symbol of living together in peace and interpersonal relationships.

  All men and people of the earth are in this image already now gathered in this city - a city that is quasi gods dwelling or tent on earth (Rev. 21,3).

  Its clear that these earthly blessing are earthly, and I personally believe in earthly blessings, and I believe that some are happening now, as jesus is already king, and the coming of others we will have to expect what will come.
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  Lieu

  Hmmmm, let's see what the Christ fellow said

  Luke 20:34-36 NET

  So Jesus said to them, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. [35] But those who are regarded as worthy to share in that age and in the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. [36] In fact, they can no longer die, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, since they are sons of the resurrection.

  "They can no longer die" those resurrecteds.

  Rev 20:7-15 appears to say the resurrection takes place AFTER Satan gets the final boot, not during the 1000 yr reign or before. It's at the point where the books of life are opened. If you were decent enough you get resurrected to life and as Jesus said "can no longer die". If you were plainly a no goodnick you get trashed and are not resurrected.

  Seems simple enough to me.

  
  

  As to there being death in heaven or not, no one knows. I do know they've got some angel police.
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  Heaven

  A few years ago I began to read and research, in earnest, information about our natural world.
  

  Very early on it became crystal clear to me that in order for life to exist on this planet, death had to occur. Death sustains life. This nullifies the ancient attempt at rationalizing why people die and the belief of 'the fall' and original sin.
  

  It also became clear to me that the homo sapien species is just one of millions, possibly billions, of species that live on this planet. There are millions of species of insects alone. Humans are part of the ecosystem, not separate. Our place is really a very small one in this system, when we consider the vastness of the number of organisms living on Earth. This nullifies religions' arrogant ideal that the Earth was perfectly made for us.
  

  So many concepts taught by religion fail when studying the actual systems of nature on this planet.

  "All plants are carnivores. They eat you in the end." - Bill Mollison