inquiring mind has 3 questions

OutsiderLookingIn

Just a few questions from a newbie. Answer one or as many as you want.

1. Why cleaners? This isn't a class or status question. I don't look down on people for their occupation but I'm curious. I've read so many stories here that Jehovah's Witnesses are cleaners and the few I know are tidy. What's the history of that?

2. What does 2/3 leave the religion really mean? It sounds very positive, but from my anecdotal experience and what I've read here, leaving doesn't mean they won't return or that even if they're inactive they are not still heavily indoctrinated.

3. Non-JWs/never dubs: how many first learned what JWs actually believe or became interested in the business of JWs because a significant other or a romantic interest was a JW? On another thread, I mentioned that most of us mere worldlies don't know what it's really all about until it confronts us head on. I had some forewarning and still didn't understand how captive and damaging JWs could be.

Thanks.

lanalonger

Cleaners--flexible hours, the money isn’t bad for the time put in, and being able to choose one’s working hours helps if one wants to spend more time in the ministry.

Correct, leaving doesn’t mean ‘never return,’ and I am a case in point there.

Can’t help with the 3rd one, but just wanted to point out, that if you can see that some leave, though they might return, possibly ‘captive’ is a rather strong word. Just a thought. Captives don’t get to ‘leave.’

Wasanelder Once

1. JW's are not particularly cleaner than other people. Many are just the opposite. It is simply a convenience for JW's to become cleaners, windows, office etc. because it takes little mental effort and believe it or not they can do it without paying taxes because it is often a cash transaction. Others justify that they don't make enough to pay taxes and don't report it. The sad thing is there is no Soc Security points and thus no retirement. They will regret it. It makes it easier to schedule conventions and such when you are your own boss.

2. Yes, guilt runs deep. People leave for various reasons. Most to escape the pressure not the doctrines. Those that leave for doctrine seldom return. Everyone else is likely to have at least one relapse. That was me the first time I left. This time? No guilt, just education.

3. Can't answer that. was born to the breed but didn't join till 16.

TMS

"why cleaners?"

What I think you are referring to is the number of JWs who have janitorial services, wash windows, clean houses, etc. For the United States, the janitorial work may have started in California in the late 50's. It was honest work, could be done during hours that didn't interfere with meetings, field service, etc. If the work was done efficiently the pay was actually more per hour than many traditional jobs. The appearance and speaking skills of many young, male pioneers made them trusted contractors for doctor or lawyer offices needing reliable, honest services.

"2/3 leave?"

Not certain if that's accurate, but you are correct that many disfellowshipped JWs still believe and desperately desire reinstatement.

"romantic interest in JWs?"

this has been proven time and again to be a frustrating dead end. The object of your affection will want nothing less than your conversion to the cult.

Beth Sarim

1. Cleaners; flexible hours and agreeably less mental involvement with that. More focussing on *the more important things* (ie ministry, meeting parts)

2. Leaving; build-up of nagging doubts, pressure from non JW family. Understandably leaving on doctrinal issues not to return. I have heard accounts of the JWs having one of the highest turn over rates perhaps!!!

3. Romantic Interest; I think what you are asking if someone from outside of JWs pursuing a JW or other way around. Then once the romance wears off, one of the parties gets disfellowshipped or something. I think that's what you are asking.

Black Sheep

"2/3 leave?" is from a survey by the Pew Research Center. One question asked was something along the lines of, "Do you still belong to the church you were raised in?" The survey has been discussed here and a search should find it.

talesin

1. Why cleaners? This isn't a class or status question. I don't look down on people for their occupation but I'm curious. I've read so many stories here that Jehovah's Witnesses are cleaners and the few I know are tidy. What's the history of that? The money is great, and you work off-hours, unless you choose to do private homes or restoration cleaning.

2. What does 2/3 leave the religion really mean? It sounds very positive, but from my anecdotal experience and what I've read here, leaving doesn't mean they won't return or that even if they're inactive they are not still heavily indoctrinated. I believe that may be 2/3 of GenXers or even Y; many Boomers are just waking up to TTATT in their 50s, 60s. And yes, many who leave the cult physically remain prisoners in their minds, never losing the guilt and need to 'do better'.

3. Non-JWs/never dubs: how many first learned what JWs actually believe or became interested in the business of JWs because a significant other or a romantic interest was a JW? On another thread, I mentioned that most of us mere worldlies don't know what it's really all about until it confronts us head on. I had some forewarning and still didn't understand how captive and damaging JWs could be. Born in, so N/A.

Edit: Good point, Black Sheep....... glad to read that, have been wondering if you are doing ok. : )

OutsiderLookingIn

Beth Sarim, I just wanted to know how many non-JWs scratched the surface to know what JWs really believe only because a romantic interest is involved. Sorry if that was confusing.

TMS, I've certainly come to understand that unless the indoctrination is broken, it just can't work. It's sad and it's something I pray about, but human love does not conquer all. Which leads to another question--3b, perhaps: I've seen some advice that young or disfellowshipped JWs should just live their lives and date outside the small pond. But is that really fair to unsuspecting non-JWs? We're people too! You get involved, possibly married and all of a sudden, your dear darling sweetheart flips the script and is trying to get reinstated into a world of crazy you did not sign up for.

TMS

"You get involved, possibly married and all of a sudden, your dear darling sweetheart flips the script and is trying to get reinstated into a world of crazy you did not sign up for."

There is, of course, no way you can anticipate that. The temporarily banished JW has no real dating or relationship experience. When things settle down, they face losing their family and any friends in the cult unless the "repent" and "return to Jehovah." Of course, this is not what you signed up for, but, unfortunately, you feel the effects of a cult you never joined.

jhine

Outsider , I was never a JW and only came to realise about JWworld because I would engage with them on the doorstep and then a friend started studying with them . She has no intention of converting but likes the company and it is easy hours for them to record !Sometimes I get to sit in on the study , which can be very frustrating .

So having realised how way off their doctrine is I started looking deeper and came across this site . It is hard to explain to other outsiders just what the reality of being a Witness is like , you may have found this .out. I think that this is because although most folk know about blood and Christmas when Witnesses engage with worldly people they are careful to not talk about the more extreme JW policies . and are always anxious to promote the idea of total unity and love in the org.

So , no it wasn't romance that led me to check the Watchtower out .

Jan

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