This thread is for proof that God exists

by juandefiero 375 Replies latest jw friends

  • The Rebel
    The Rebel

    Thank you for the reply Cofty.

    Cofty : (A) "We could but would it not be easier just to dispense with the word God?

    The Rebel: (A) " We could but doesn't that then avoid answering the question?

    Cofty: ( A) you would have to say a lot more to define " all persuasive wisdom" and " indestructible nature of reality and life"

    "Both these phrases seem to luck substance "

    The Rebel ( A) I would define " all persuasive wisdom" as wisdom that cannot exist without facts. Now to my understanding a fact is something that exists or has happened, so we are no further forward, because if God exists that is a fact, even if it can't be proven.

    Personally I won't deny the existence of God, because this debate has been going on for centuries without proof either way, instead I would rather focus my attention on myself, and to understand how I can make a positive impact on my neighborhood.

    The Rebel

  • Island Man
    Island Man

    That guy who said religion is the opiate of the masses - he was so very right!

    Belief in God is not founded in facts and reality. It's founded in all things emotional, all things subjective. It produces a psycho-emotional "high" in its adherents allowing them to cope psychologically with problems like: coming to terms with mortality; enduring illness, poverty, injustices, etc.

    Religion helps people cope in much the same way that alcohol and drugs help people to cope. But just like the high produced by drugs is all in your head and does not really solve the problems in your life, so too it is with religion.

    Just as drugs have the ability to damage the brain and cause people to think and act irrationally, so too it is with religion.

    Religion, period, has been an evil scourge on humanity. It has been a fetter to progress. It has been a provocateur of bigotry, tyranny and atrocities. People who believe irrational things without proof can easily justify atrocious behavior without shame or guilt.

    "However, if some have a view that God exists, they don't need a pass from you or me or anyone else. "

    Any extraordinary claim that is promoted as truth but that cannot be substantiated with evidence deserves to be treated as a lie! Lies are dangerous because they don't conform to reality and when they influence people to act in a manner that does not conform to reality, they or others end up getting hurt - sometimes killed! - by reality. That is the danger of lies! That is the danger of theism!

    Unproven religious beliefs do not deserve respect just as lies do not deserve respect. Disproven religious beliefs deserve strong ridicule! Lies only harm society in the long run.

    Respect religious lies today and next thing you know they're national laws tomorrow! Next thing you know, it's ok and justifiable to burn albinos as witches because the belief that albinos are witches is widely respected and believed to be true - because no one was brave enough to ridicule it for the nonsense it is when it first started a century ago.

    Thousands of years from now. Humans will look back on our time with incredulity at the fools who advocated respect for unproven, wishful-thinking, harmful, toxic, family-destroying, progress-hampering religious beliefs. Just as we today find it hard that people justified owning and mistreating people as slaves so too people will look back at the folly of religion.

  • Alive!

    I have a question - as a young child, I sensed 'something' long before I could be indoctrinated....why?

    .....a bit of background..

    Both my parents were anti-religion and so were their kind and decent family/ friends - they'd be horrified to read some of the posts here.....the hatred, nastiness,

    My Dad leant towards an agnostic way of thinking, yet his words and way of life were exemplary - he would have 'died' spiritually if he had been a 'JW' man. They would have killed him.

    I suppose that was part of my final wake up re the witnesses, why had the God the JWs had made up , want to destroy the decent and kindly folk who made up my family, because when I lived with the 'types' who made up the congregations, I found it was full of horrible people, dressed up to look nice, to act nice but emotionally immature, lacking loyalty to anything but their ever changing 'God'

    So, I've been burnt - but...I remain locked in that early childhood sense of the universe ...I choose to believe in the wonderous. When I was yet reading Jack and Jill books, I grasped or in my inner world got hold of the concept of time as in eternity.

    I'm going to trust 'me' - trust my heart and sense of the universe.

    Juan, I'm at peace tuning into a loving, divine Supernatural power.

    Your OP asked the question - I can't beat you over the head with the answer - it's your journey after all.

    I feel it's my job to seek, my job to refine and not be the passive receiver of information that gives me the heads up that God exists.

    I'm a searcher, a hopeful and believing searcher. If I am nothing more than an evolved organism, then I have no right or place to understand the concept of eternity, or self sacrificing love, especially when acts of love are secret to me, do not help me in my daily existence but simply build my spiritual sense of joy.

  • cofty
    I'm at peace tuning into a loving, divine Supernatural power

    Why do you think the supernatural power is loving?

  • Fisherman
    Why do you think the supernatural power is loving?

    There is more than one way to answer your question.

    I can tell you to read some some book.

    I can tell you that your questions is stupid and so are you.

    I can link the WTS teachings and if you disagree to tell you TOO BAD!

    I can tell you that the Bible defines God as being loving and if you disagree, too bad!

    I can tell you that I believe that Jehovah is loving because he allows you and people like you that do not believe he exists, do not appreciate his gifts, and do not like him, to breathe his sweet air, eat his delicious food, sleep in his beautiful cozy house, even to the point where such people make trouble, harm and kill people that love him and serve him.

  • cofty
    Yes you could Fishy but do you have a sensible answer?
  • Alive!

    Cofty - I believe because I can imagine it.

    And really, if I am indeed just an evolved organism how could I imagine such a thing? How did mankind project this hope which is outside of my experience? Who could have come up with such a story?

    Don't give up Cofty dear. Don't follow men. You spent a long time hoping, and now you are hurt it seems - take care (((((( hug ))))))

  • Alive!

    Wait, I'm sorry if that last post may read badly to you Cofty, I just woke up and wrote.....the hug and take care part may irritate I think, it was just a knee jerk reaction on my part.... On reflection I think it may sound a bit fake.

    I won't edit it - but just want to acknowledge it wasn't the best way to respond perhaps?


  • Fisherman
    Cofty posts interesting and thought provoking articles but his writing skills are sub average to average. There is nothing exceptional about how he writes or about what he writes, ordinary stuff except that he does a lot of work to present the info he posts.But you dont't need anything more than a dictionary to understand the meaning of some word that cofty chooses to use in his posts. I suggest that you get a phone app and enrich your vocabulary.

    In spite of that I strongly disagree with their views, If you want a template of masterful use of the English language on this Forum, read Marvin Shilmer's posts or TD's posts.

    -Or you can try to punch your way out of a watchtower magazine.

  • Fisherman
    Yes you could Fishy but do you have a sensible answer?

    Sensible compared to what? Your views?

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