When "all" is not "everyone" or "everything."

by Wonderment 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JoenB75
    JoenB75

    Wonderment,

    Paul says the Father is excluded in 1 Corinthians 15:27 because of the statement in 15:28. Once all things are reconciled/put under the reign of the Son, the meditorial mode called the Son will subject to God that God may be all in all. Also God made the Son heir of all things and gave him All authority. He must be worshipped as Jesus Christ the highest authority in the universe. He is not making an argument that All things have excptions or that the Son is a creature. The Son is the Word made flesh, a specific mode of God revealed to reconcile / finish creation.

  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    JoenB75 said: "Also God made the Son heir of all things and gave him All authority. He must be worshipped as Jesus Christ the highest authority in the universe. He is not making an argument that All things have exceptions or that the Son is a creature. The Son is the Word made flesh, a specific mode of God revealed to reconcile / finish creation."

    Your comment about the Son being "a specific mode of God" rhymes with "modalistic monarchianism," a doctrinal belief from the late 2nd and 3rd century. The term "modalism" was first said to be used by theologian Arnold von Arnack to describe the belief that God manifests himself in various "modes" through the Son and the Holy Spirit. By the way, modalism was generally considered a heresy by early Trinitarians. Modalism is not a biblical belief.

    Your statement, "He [the Son] must be worshipped as Jesus Christ the highest authority in the universe" needs to be qualified. First, Heb. 1.6 calls on angels to worship Jesus, as many Bible versions put it. However, it should be noted that the biblical term can mean anything from a simple act of physical inclination as a token of respect, to one of full adoration. Context determines the right interpretation of the word.

    Is Jesus "the highest authority in the universe"? No, all authority was given to him. If he was already almighty being a "mode of God," it would not be necessary for someone else to give him authority. The same with knowledge. God doesn't need to receive factual information from another because he himself is all-knowing. Yet, Rev. 1.1 shows God giving the heavenly Christ a "revelation" to pass on to others. The text you quoted of 1 Cor. 15.28 itself shows that Jesus is second to God in the universal scheme of things. And yes, Paul stated clearly that the concept of "all things" (Gk: pánta) submitting to Christ EXCLUDES God. Thus, if Christ is subject to God forever, it is reasonable to believe that his own life was caused by God, as Jesus himself claimed. (John 6.57) These biblical concepts counter the factuality of the idea that Christ is ‘the maximum authority in the universe.’

    Jesus himself asked others to worship the Father, not him. (John 4.23,24) The rightful conclusion would be one in accord with Paul, who stated that "God is the head of Christ." (1 Cor. 11.3) I would rather believe in Jesus Christ hlmself who said "the Father was greater than him, instead of accepting human doctrines pushed by modalists such as Praxeas, Noetus and Sabellius.

    In fact, Jesus did not even foresee a moment in his future Kingdom where he would have enough authority to assign favored seats to others. He said only the Father had that prerogative. (Matt. 20.20-23) Thus, the Son is scripturally shown to have some limitations. (Matt 24.36; Acts 1.6,7)

  • JoenB75
    JoenB75

    Wonderment,

    1 Corinthians 15:27-28 only strengthens my basic point about all and context. Paul clearly understands all as all in this context, therefore he feels the need to point out it is evident that God is excluded from things to be subjected (or created). He is not saying it is also evident Adam, Nero, Mao, Hitler, apostates and all the other guys we don’t like are excluded too.

    I dont know why you speak of the Trinitarians? Trust me, Arius came later and was considered a worse threath 😊.

    Jesus is given all authority in heavens and earth (Matt 28:18) and is heir of all things despite the JW protest (Hebrews 1.2). God placed him “far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come” (Ephesians 1:21). The mode of Yahweh / Jehovah has retired with the old covenant. He said goodbye long time ago. As Paul explains in Philippians 2:5-11, grasping the incarnation of God the Father is essential to our understanding. Jesus is God as man and while Jesus as man has a Father, Jesus is to be worshipped nonetheless. We are to call on Jesus like the old covenanters called on Yahweh, God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ are various revelations / modes (1 Corinthians 1:2-3). It is the Incarnate who would be exalted now. The Word, the reason and cause of all things, was made flesh, came to serve God and man and now is exalted above all. He is one with the Father as He is God the Father in flesh (John 10:30, 14:9).

    Where is the Arian Jesus in the Bible? In the old testament JWs may try to go for personified wisdom (Proverbs 8.23) or make the Creator “one of the chief princes” (Daniel 10:23). That is not how to speak of God the Father who emptied himself and became man to serve. Apart from his existence in flesh, the Son would be recognized as God and Father (Isaiah 9.6). The sum of the Word is truth (Psalm 119:160). So you must try to reconcile its teachings.

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