Headline: "Islamic Invasion: Europe now scrambles for guns." How true is this?

by cappytan 155 Replies latest jw friends

  • krejames
    krejames

    I understand why you're concerned for your family, Macys. There is it seems a huge problem in Sweden and some other countries with the way immigration has been managed. But the problems go way before the current influx from the Middle East so it is not factual when right wing press or political parties use suspect scare-mongering stories to generate fear and prejudice about people coming from those countries now.

    The way I see it is this (just as an example): The power vacuum in Libya, leading to the emergence of ISIS and other competing factions in that country are directly attributable to the West's manipulating events to get rid of Gadaffi. So if people are now fleeing the dreadful conditions our governments helped create, we can't just run away - we have a responsibility to help. Any danger from a trojan horse strategy is of our doing. It goes against all moral reasoning to create a mess and just leave ordinary people to cope with the carnage that now exists as a direct result of actions we carried out. The emergence of ISIS itself is said to be largely down to the tactics used in Iraq by the US and its allies.

    Mass immigration is not a new problem. And a fearful reaction is nothing new either. For example, in the early years of the 20th Century and by 1920, around 3 million Jews had travelled to America to flee the pogroms in Russia and the anti-semitic treatment they received in other parts of Europe. The US press blamed the Jews for all sorts of things including the Great Depression.

    Time will tell if the fears about ISIS terrorists sneaking in to Europe are well founded. But unfortunately it's a mess we created ourselves to protect our own interests and way of life. Don't get me wrong - I have fears about this too. But that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of these poor people are completely innocent and are in this position largely because of the actions of our governments. This is why I wrote that we made our bed so we have to lie in it.

    Interesting discussion about the Sweden problem here: https://www.quora.com/How-bad-is-the-immigration-problem-in-Sweden

    And for more food for thought, an interesting web page with pictures of Afghanistan before and after the wars. http://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-photos-of-prewar-afghanistan-show-everyday-life-in-peaceful-kabul-2013-2?op=1&IR=T

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    cappytan:

    "But sometimes, things that sound sensational turn out to be true which was why I was trying to get feedback from folks on the forum that are actually over there and may have their own perspective on it."

    Two sayings come to mind concerning anything the Right Wing has to say: "The boy who cried wolf" and "Even a broken clock is right once a day".

  • GrreatTeacher
    GrreatTeacher

    Cappy, I've been very impressed with you lately. This move must have been good for you.

    Freedom to think; great to have it, isn't it?

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Good grief, fear mongering at its best.

    The countries to where these people are headed can handle the odd rare extremist.

    They are going to be watched over very carefully to be sure, any signs of extremist activity and they will

    find themselves booted back to where they came in a blink .

    One thing to note is that the officials there are aware that these people are mostly secular Muslims,

    the extremists are probably staying in Syria.

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    macys:

    "But this whole situation, the way it suddenly appeared raises many questions which makes me think if this is a plot to break down the homogeneous European society."

    Conspiracy theories leads nowhere in explaining complex situations.

    "I mean the war in Syria, in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan has been going on for many years now but only now suddenly everyone decides to come all at once like they got an open invitation?"

    A campfire in a dry forest could burn for hours before a single spark sets the whole forest on fire.

    "And why are these people traveling 4000 miles to Europe when they can go 600 miles to Turkey or Qatar or Saudi Arabia or UAE where they already speak Arabic or Farsi and have similar customs and the same religion?"

    Qatar has 1.8 million people of which less than 300,000 are citizens with the rest being migrant workers. UAE is in a similar situation with a huge percentage of its population being expatriates working under horrible conditions. Then realize that those refugees will have to cross the border into Saudi Arabia or Iraq to make it into those pip squeak nations.

    Yet little Lebanon with 6 million people has allowed over 1 million refugees there.

    Those people are simply, out of pure desperation, going to wherever they can.

  • cappytan
    cappytan
    Cappy, I've been very impressed with you lately. This move must have been good for you.
    Freedom to think; great to have it, isn't it?

    GreatTeacher: certainly is. I'm able to find my own way, and I never take things at face value anymore.

    Being skeptical isn't the same as being a pessimist. I had to realize that.

    (I still love my guns though...lol)

  • pepperheart
    pepperheart
    What a load of tosh.For the past 4 years or so the world food programe have been feeding about 4 million refugees in camps around syria who have gone there because of the civil war that started in the arab spring when the tusnian dictator and egyptian dictator were kicked out by their own people and it got to syria and five years later we are here.Then last the world food programe who had been feeding millions of people in the camps ran out of money and had to cut back how much food and food vouchers they gave to people. So the people had the choice stay and have less then £1 a day to live on or move and some moved because they had no choice and because they were wanting a better life (the american dream) and because they had contact with people smugglers who have vast amounts of money sending people on boats etc some have managed to get to greece and then walk the 1000s of miles to eastern europe etc.Then they have been around loads of people from eastern europe that just want a better job etc and have been walking to germany etc
  • JWdaughter
    JWdaughter

    Syrians and Lebanese people are basically the same people. The culture is very similar. Most are pretty secular and the religious are mostly not radicals. Qatar, Saudi and other countries are NOT "just the same" as Syria. They don't speak the same dialect and have an entirely different culture. Most in Syria OR Lebanon would be more comfortable in Europe than Arabia. Most would not really want to go further into the areas that are besieged by ISIS. I wouldn't! We keep hearing about them making insurgencies to Egypt, Arabia etc. Little tiny Bahrain and Qatar are NOT equipped for that kind of influx infrastructurally. The climate rather precludes just sticking them all in tent cities in the desert. They aren't Bedu, and the desert is not mildly desert-like. It is serious. Qatar has the money, but struggles to provide, even with all the money, water and sewage services to the current population.They are growing and trying to make more infrastructure, but they are likely overcome by the immigrant workers already there right now building the new infrastructure.

    I wouldn't stop in Lebanon, I'd keep heading west. Not because I am greedy or a bad guy. Because ISIS has already rooted them from hearth and home. They want to feel safe again. They want their children to get an education. Look what happened to Palestinians. They want away from all the crazy political crap and I don't blame them.

  • GodZoo
  • Virran
    Virran

    My whole family lives in Stockholm, Sweden and they say it's getting crazy. My sisters 11 year old kids school gym is gonna be used as a shelter for refugees and they will also put up a tent camp. Refugees with children gets to go first in the Stockholms rental apartment waiting line, which people have to wait in line for 10-20 or more years before getting a rental contract. With annual fees.

    People are getting pissed at the Swedish government but no one dares to speak up, if you do, others will call you a "racist". It's not that they don't understand these people need to get away from their horrible conditions but the Swedish government have no plans how to handle taking in basically a whole other country. The money for the costs of helping them has to come from somewhere and they can't live in school gyms and tents forever. They're not allowed to work either.

    whats in the Swedish news right now is that refugees are refusing to get of the busses and having a sit down strike simply because they don't like where they were taken. They all want to live in bigger city's which is impossible, most of the swedes lives outside bigger city's too. So it comes over as very ungrateful and it's not the first time this is happening either so the word how to get your will through is obviously spreading.

    But the biggest problem/threat is Isis seeping through with the refugees and things will start to blow up and people will get hurt and killed. I haven't heard yet of regular people getting guns to protect themselves and it's still just not that easy to get ahold of firearms unless you have criminal connections. Which the regular swede don't have, they're usually kind of standoff-ish, don't like confrontations and don't want to get involved (unless they're drinking, lol) That all might change though after some terror attacks.

    Hate crimes like that Swedish nutcase with a sword that murdered two immigrants in a school will most likely get out of hand too. Basically, the future looks scary.

    The economy will crash, people will get laid off without getting financial help, the ones still holding a job will have to pay much more in taxes. Everything that stood for the Swedish awesome quality of living will soon be just a fading memory. They're not used to have to pay for healthcare or to save up for retirement like in the states. And I personally can only blame the Swedish government, they're idiots. I've been homesick for the past 17 years and my plan have always been to go back home when my kids are both in college but now I honestly don't think it's gonna be that easy.

    Ok, rant over...:)

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