How Much is Personal Responsibility vs WTS' Fault? (page 3)

wednesday

we now have the freedom to pursue life choices that were never available before. If we wanted to go to university, what is preventing us from going now? If we wanted to change careers, what is stopping us now?

age, obligations to family, health. All of those things i was unemcumbered by at 18-19 now i am. Now i have people to surpport and health problems i did not have at 18. I have no one to live with like mommy and daddy to support me while i go to school.

Yes it can still be done, but they took away a large part of my life, the young years when i was healthy and had energy and was not supporitng a family. And all b/c i believed every word that came form their mouth.

I believe they should have to pay for that.

outoftheorg

As wednesday stated AGE and all its implications, stop those of us older people from initiating many changes outside of ourselves.

To this day after 15 yrs. I still have to face the repercussions of my decisions based on the wbts demands. This may or may not change before I pass away.

Were we coerced into doing things the wbts way? Absolutly. If we did not, we faced the loss of family and friends. To this day, I still have siblings and children and nieces and nephews who are lost to me. For some of us, the wbts crap never goes away.

Many found themselves in life situations, where even though they no longer wanted to be a jw, the overall picture of their life, made drastic changes impossibly devastating and still stay caught up in the jaws of wbts.

In my opinion, minimizing the responsibility of the wbts is an exercise in denial.

Outoftheorg

Mecurious?

In my opinion, minimizing the responsibility of the wbts is an exercise in denial.

And like wise, underestimating and minimizing the responsibility of the individual is a recipe for disaster. And as much as I hate to agree with teen yuck, I’m afraid in this case I have to.

The past does affect the future, but we still have the present and just about anything can be accomplished if the desire to succeed is strong enough.

To the extent that we abdicate personal responsibility to Wts will be to the extent that we find love, freedom and personal happiness.

Never stop dreaming.

Merc’

tazmaniac

That is a very good question. I think many of the decisions I made FOR THE GOOD were because of being tied to the WTBS. Such as ; not smoking, not using drugs, not becoming overly involved in some pursuit etc. When I began to doubt I (me myself alone) made the decision to stay in as long as I did. It is interesting to look back and dissect various aspects of being a witness. Recently I was in a rather large warehouse. In the background there was lilting music. I had near tears coming to my eyes and didnt realize til a while later why. It brought back rememberances of being at the district convention very very early in the morning. We would either be practicing a part or wrapping sandwiches or something in some department and THIS was one of the most enjoyable times I ever had as a witness. Yes it was based on delusion. Yes it was pounding half truths into my head. BUT while I was a hard core witness it was the closest thing to paradise I could describe. Decisions, decisions.....even no decision is a decision. I laugh at them now. But it is me who makes the decisions now. I am picking up college courses. I am going to concerts. I am seeing the occasional R rated movie. It is me who needs to keep the balance now. Maybe it is off the subject or maybe I am rambling but....so be it. I decided to post it. Cheers !!!

Analysis

Are the tobacco companies really responsible for deaths associated with smoking?

Is McDonalds responsible for people being fat?

Are the gun manufactures responsible when someone dies of gunshot wounds?

All three are choices, just like following the WTBTS.

Now some I agree have valid complaints that can be proved in courts. I wish those people success if that is what they wish to do.

As to Education and Material aspects of following a religion, I really don’t think anyone that blames the WTBTS for their lot in life really has anything to complain about. Why?

As to financial success:

The biggest factors in success are:

The genes you received from your birth parents

The Country or Area you were raised

Moral and work ethic of the people who raised you

We have no control over those factors; it is the luck of the draw!

As already pointed out by some on this thread, some of us have overcome many hardships and still can consider themselves happy and successful.

I know scores of people who had the opportunity to get a college education, who still find themselves without the financial security many of you attribute to a good and proper education. I also know millionaires who received only a GED or a High School Education.

Anyone in the developed world (such as the US) with a little luck and a great deal of hard work can have financial security. It is a sad statement that this can not be said for some places on this planet.

waiting

Many good points in this thread, thank you.........and a lot of over-simplification.

Are the tobacco companies really responsible for deaths associated with smoking?

It has been proven that the tobacco companies target young teens (Joe Camel cartoon) and the companies made to stop. They also target third world countries now - giving away free cigarettes to sample - get 'em hooked before the disclaimers start, eh?. They've also put in more nicotine in some of their products. MAJOR court cases have been won - and the tobacco companies spent millions, perhaps billions, fighting for years to prevent it.

Is McDonalds responsible for people being fat?

Has anyone sued & won over McDonald's for being fat? Betty Crocker? Mrs. Fields? Burger King?

Are the gun manufactures responsible when someone dies of gunshot wounds?

Depends on what causes the gunshot wounds. If the gun can be shown to be defective, yes. And I've not read of any person suing a gun company (and winning) because they were in bed with their neighbor's wife and the husband came in and shot him.

All three are choices, just like following the WTBTS.

That is the over-simplification. If it were a choice to follow the WTBTS - then it's also a choice to leave freely - like leaving a McDonld's restaurant. No JW can freely leave the WTBTS.

If nothing else, the WTBTS is a high-control group with serious punishments for leaving them. At their worst, they are a cult and thousands of people have willing given their own and their children's lives to them in service and death.

Parents teach their children (from the new children's book) to live in fear that the unbelieving parent is going to die at Armageddon. Now, this child is also being taught that God is going to kill all bad people - or people who don't pay him enough attention - at Armageddon.

So the child learns as soon as they can comprehend words ..... God is going to kill his "unbeliever" parent at Armageddon. And Armageddon is coming "any day now." And that his parent is a bad person.......why else would God kill his mom/dad/grandparents?

Btw, this child is being taught by "God's Only Channel to Mankind" that all people not jw's are going to be killed by Jehovah at Armageddon - which is coming "any day now." Teenagers probably could care less. But young children? How can they make "normal" friendships when they KNOW that kid is going to be killed by Jehovah "shortly." Is that the kid's fault?

This is a cult-like business corporation parading as a religion. It is an over-simplification to compare it to McDonald's. McDonald's could never get away with the crap the WTBTS does. "Freedom of Religion".

The only rules to compare it with are other cult-like businesses....such as Scientology, Moonies, Church of Christ, perhaps the Mormons. Definitely not McDonald's - they have to follow laws.

Btw, not all my experiences in the WTBTS were negative. And they're not responsible for my entire life. Never said they were.

refiners fire

good question sis.

The sooner everyone accepts FULL responsibility, stops blame shifting, and forgets about what the WT did the better. For them. If you keep reliving and replaying incidents in your mind it only reinforces them.It doesnt eradicate them. The only way to eradicate them is to accept, suck them up inside you, and move on. Burn the WT books, dont keep reading them. You keep blaming someone else for what happened ( even if they WERE responsible) ...only drains your personal power.

Analysis

waiting

You missed my point.

Some things are out of our control like where you were born and to whom. Much of the rest is the result of our choices. We should not attempt to blame others when we decide to smoke, eat fatty foods and commit crimes.

refiners fire

Now its true that have no formal education, and I would dearly loved to go to University. And Its true I only have one son, and wished I had another, and its true that the WT teachings, are in many ways responsible for those results in my life. But being nitter and hating the WT isnt going to change anything. You might as well blame Eisenhower because your son got killed in the world war 2.

I was born into a cult scenario....Oh what a curse! And what an amazing first 35 years of my life I had because of it. I view it as a test from God seeing if I will accept responsibility, even of that.

ozziepost

I was born into a cult scenario....Oh what a curse! And what an amazing first 35 years of my life I had because of it. I view it as a test from God seeing if I will accept responsibility, even of that.

Eloquent and wise one, you get my plaudits for that!

Cheers, Ozzie

How Much is Personal Responsibility vs WTS' Fault?

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