Edited by - SolidSender on 10 August 2000 4:41:4
Edited by - SolidSender on 10 August 2000 4:41:4
I haven't heard anything like that. I doubt they would ever hire anyone from "outside" for matters of doctrine. They obviously have good "spin" people anyway, and they've had them for a long time.
No amount of "spinning" will do anyway. Freethinkers are being weeded out, dumbing down the flock. Any who remain "strong in the truth" will collapse from mental exaustion and breakdown. People are already putting the "truth" on the back burner and playing catch-up for lost time. Past policies like education, not planning for the future, blood, etc are already starting to come back and haunt them.
I gather most see no real way out for the organization. What made us different and what we are is what needs to be changed. And those changes have to be made due to the overwhelming evidence existing to force such changes.
Yet the price of such change will be enormous, and the results will be devestating as 6 million people (and the millions loosely associated who "still believe its the truth) have the rug pulled out from under them when they realize they are just like everyone else. They are going to die, but were never prepared to accept this simple fact of life.
The old GB members will pass off the scene, leaving the 4 new younger replacements holding the bag.
Good morn'in, I'm having coffee and chatting with you instead of finding my Watchtower, which I was never good at.
You made some really good points. What made us "special" is also the things that need to be immediately addressed. And if they're addressed in an honest & open way, we won't be special anymore. And Lord knows, this is a hard religion to keep current in (the workload)and if we're not special, why do it?
If God will accept us by being just ordinary people, like a lot of other ordinary people, then I guess the Bible was right - Jesus died for all men (not just special persons).
I think one reason that the Watchtower "studies," got so boring for me in the last several years was that they were just rehash about things that were really "studiable" anyway. Just reminders, in general. Things the writers couldn't get trounced upon in retrospect.
About the growth of the WTBTS? The Spanish congregations are zealously growing. Here in our area, and also as reported on h20. Guess the WTBTS is just going were the "grass" is greener.
Everybody is looking for a quick fix to a sometimes lousy world & security.
Nice talking with you. waiting
Everything changes so I guess to say that the Society will change is somewhat redundant. The question is more: how and when? I think the changes are already occurring and in a way that perhaps few people realize. The change is already happening inside of the Witnesses themselves. More and more I hear comments from Witnesses that tells me that they are no longer ‘buying it all’ anymore. We are entering a situation which has existed for quite some time in the Catholic church in the matter of birth control. There are many, many sincere, devout, and informed Catholics that simply revere their church and are totally dedicated to the Catholic faith –but they practice birth control. They do this with the knowledge and blessing of their parish priest. It seems that everyone except the Vatican is aware of how ridiculous that policy is. The truth of the matter is that the Vatican is also aware of the obsolescence of the policy. Why won’t they change? Because there is pressure being applied to them to do so. If they relent, it will be construed as a weakness on the part of the Holy See who rules by the grace of God. You can bet that they don’t like it that such a large percentage of their flock openly ignores the church’s mandate on birth control. They are waiting for something to happen that will give them the license to get rid of this troublesome rule without losing face or better still something that will give them even more control in the end.
I believe that for the most part, the majority of the Witnesses today realize that the 1914 generation business was a colossal blunder and that there is no way of knowing when ‘the end’ is coming. I think that a large portion of the R&F have already accepted this. It can be seen in less meeting attendance and reduced field service time. The sense of urgency is no longer there and I firmly believe that it will never be regained, at least not by the majority of the membership. The Witnesses will still make the appropriate and mandatory responses by saying “we know the end is near…”, etc. but they will now be living their lives with a future in this world in mind. They will be getting better paying jobs and planning for retirement, taking vacations instead of auxiliary pioneering and all of this will cut into their field service time and meeting attendance.
Now although this is simply stated, this is not a simple matter. One must remember the mindset of the typical JW: THIS IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, AND THE ONLY TRUTH, THERE IS NOTHING ELSE BUT THIS! Now Witnesses are, by this very act of giving verbal homage to the notion of the end being imminent while intellectually rejecting that notion, assaulting that long held notion as expressed in bold print above. Once that cardinal concept begins to crack…I don’t know what can remain that will be anything like what it was before. Remove that all pervading concept that this is totally and completely from God and what is left? It’s no wonder that there is much concern over this.
It has already begun. The blood thing will be more difficult than the ‘end is near’ thing but it will go the same way. We will have a situation in the near future that will parallel what has been going on in the Baptist faith for years. They publicly denounce alcohol from the pulpit but guzzle it behind closed doors at home. We will have Witnesses teaching their Bible studies not to accept blood but will secretly accept it for themselves or their family members just like we tell our studies now that the end is near and not become entangled in this system of things while we contribute regularly to our retirement funds.
And so it will continue. Common sense has a way of surfacing. The Mormons had to drop their polygamy (multiple marriages) and the WTS will have to drop a lot of outdated things as well and in time the RCC will drop the birth control thing as well. And while it is happening we will be losing something, a hope and a dream. True the dream was not real but it will be missed just as much as if it had been real because we believed it so much!
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
Friend, thank you for your thoughts on this matter. The points you expressed about the blood issue were very thought provoking.
My Dad faced a situation where he needed blood. He was a JW, but only to please my Mom. (He had been an opposer for many years, but in his 70's he finally relented).
He was taking Coumadin (a blood thinner) for heart problems. Because of a stressful situation, a fissure opened up in his intestines, and because of the Coumadin, his blood would not clot.
Dad was a stoic. He said nothing about this for several days. My Mom finally noticed the blood in the toilet bowl and got him to the hospital. They tried Vitamin K to encourage clotting, but it didn't work.
Mom called me to come to the hospital. She was in a panic. The doctors told us that Dad needed a transfusion....100 percent survival with it, 100 percent death without it. Since Dad was an adult and conscious, all we could do was urge him to decline the transfusion and put his hope in Jehovah.
I must admit that while I said the words, my mind was screaming "take the transfusion, Dad, I don't want to lose you!!!" He did decide to take the transfusion because of a near-death experience that he related to me. His recovery was rapid and complete. For some reason, no action was taken against him. Possibly, Mom never told the elders and they didn't know.
Your point about life as it pertains to blood made perfect sense....especially in the context of my Dad's experience.
I particularly enjoyed reading your experience on this thread. It is so good to hear good endings for a change.
Regarding any supposed sacredness of blood imputed in the Noachian Law, it is interesting to note that nothing in that Law prohibited Noah and his offspring from using blood for lowly purposes, such as for an adhesive (glue). It is simply preposterous to conclude that Jehovah in his words to Noah elevated blood to be sacred as a substance. Can any of us imagine using a sacred substance to paste things together with? Yet that was not prohibited to Noah. God only prohibited one thing having to do with the substance of blood, eating blood of animals killed for food. Absolutely no other use of the substance of blood was prohibited to Noah.
On the other hand Jehovah certainly did spell out that fact that humans should hold life in very high regard, what you might call sacred.
Glad you brought up the point of the common use of blood in other products. Back in the late '70s, I gardened with my sister. We did not use any supplements which contained powdered blood. I'm pretty sure, if memory serves me, we didn't even use bone meal.
We didn't want to offend Jehovah "just in case."
My husband told me in the South that during the '60s, children were taught by their parents to look on the back of chocolate candy wrappers to be sure that the lethicin(?) was soy and not from blood.
Perhaps we missed the true point of Jehovah's words? Straining at the nat.......
waiting, did anyone in your congregation get really paranoid about pet foods possibly containing blood, or the juice in rare meats? How about being yelled at as a kid if you got a scratch and put your finger to your mouth?
I well remember the warnings about using any sort of fertilizer for your plants that might contain blood meal, which when you think of it is really ridiculous. What do they think happens to the blood of an animal when it is killed? Or, for that matter when you bury the family pet? They never said anything about the practice some elderly gardeners had about using rotted fish as fertilizer....I guess they forgot that fish have blood, too.
You said a lot Frenchy!
To All, Many may have a different opinion but plently can be said about putting your faith and trust in Jehovah. Less than ten years ago I was a critically ill young teen. The doctors said I had
a disorder where my body was manufacturing anitbodies that were killing my red blood cells and that they wanted to remove my spleen. Our family had been in the truth for only a few years so looking back this must have been a supreme test for my parents. I truly believed everything that was taught at the time about the use of blood and did not want the surgery.
I put on a brave face for my family and friends during visiting hours but when I was alone, particularly late at night I would shake with fear
and sob. I can't recall many of the friends being
any sort of comfort at all. I did find comfort however in my late-night talks with Jehovah. I can say this here and not have to see you all rolling your eyes but it's true. I would tell him everything-how afraid I was to die and to please help me with that because the promise of paradise earth just wasn't cutting it. As it turned out the
surgery would have been futile and would not have been necessary. They were forced to explore other options and they were successful. I turned my life
over to God and he handed it back to me. What can I say, I was a stupid but thankful kid. I feel I owe him one and that's why I just can't abandon God completely no matter what twisted scripture I've been following the past few years. One thing that's always been in the back of mind is would my parent's have let me die? Yes, I thinks so and that's sick. As an adult I know now thanks to people like you what the real truth is about the use of blood.