Launching into a thorough investigation.

by Blueblades 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • Blueblades
    Blueblades

    Have you pondered the "EVIDENCE" of the world-----of history------of science----of philosophy-----of psychology? Have you personally,without the help of others,launched into a thorough investigation concerning God,the Bible,and Jesus Christ?

    While I myself am still in pursuit,I am not yet finished nor have I come to any absolute conclusions about anything I am asking of you in this post.

    I would very much appreciate any evidences that you would like to share that convinced you of the belief you now have,and I am not talking about some belief system based on faith.

    Thank you in advance for any input given.

    Blueblades

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    without the help of others

    You won't get far w/o the help of others. I think you see my point so I won't be specific.

    So, you're left with the task of interpreting and assigning value to the work of "others". Two books that I found very helpful were "the Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan, and "Who wrote the Bible?" by.... ... I forget, Friedman? One shows how little we really know about who wrote the bible (although what we do know is fascinating and not at all what you traditionally think), and the other shows how silly it is to conjure up supernatural "spooky" explainations for everything you don't know the facts about.

  • StinkyPantz
    StinkyPantz

    I am at a crossroads myself. I am also searching for "truth". The greatest help for me thus far has been studying in Geology. Now I realize that that might sound boring, but it was the biggest eye-opener for me as far as disproving the Bible (Pangaea, continental drifts, fossils, glaciers). I took the classes thinking that it was going to be a bunch of anti-Bible BS; but I came out with a wealth of knowledge. I am currently a psychology major and that too has helped my deal with some issues (people talking to "god", hearing voices, etc).

    Good luck on your journey!

  • Max Divergent
    Max Divergent

    Hi - Yeah, I'd like to know more and on the basis of evidence and have had an ongoing (though inconsitant and half-hearted) reeducation program (which included college)...

    I've just read Bill Bryson's recent A short history of almost everything which gave a good (I think) overview of the scientific search for evidence over the last few hundred years and the present state of knowledge in his easy to read, good humoured and informative way.

    Sagan's Demon haunted world (mentioned above) is excellent for helping to develop the thinking skills to recognise evidence and reject 'baloney' (I think the centre-piece is his 'Balony Detection Kit' of skillls in sceptical thinking). I'd like to read Sagan's Cosmos one day too, when I was small I saw the TV series and it made an impression.

    Richard Dawkins' The blind watchmaker makes it crystal clear that the way creationists describe evolution is a load of hooey and dishonestey. You might accept or reject creation or evolution, but you'll certainly see the falsehoods many creationists (JW included) use in debunking evolution. (I say all that on the basis of reading the first 1/4... after that it goes over my head).

    I'd read them in that order (then re-read as much of the JW's creation book as you can stand before throwing the book out the window and your guts all over the floor...)

    Enjoy

  • Jomavrick
    Jomavrick

    Blue,

    That is one of the more interesting questions I have seen posted here for a while. The quest to find ones own answers to the important questions of why are we here, how did we get here, what does it mean and where are we going is an important responsibility we owe ourselves. And unlike what the organization teaches, I do think that we must think outside the conventional religious box in thinking for ourselves. There certainly is no lack for "voices" which shout a certain perspective or message, all claiming to have authority based on "evidence", credentials etc,,,,, Higher education, the sciences, philosophers, theologians.

    But in the end, we are on our own. Accepting the views of anyone religion is so neat and conventional, they do the work for us- packaged so nice and neat. But we give up our own rational, instincts, imagination. I ask the question, does it make sense, does it strike the chord of logic, does it ring the bell of "truth" in ones heart and mind. Since opening my mind to the large questions, and trying to fit the pieces of the puzzle to gether, I welcome the information from different sources. But doubt if the "answer" comes from any one source as I have yet to hear anyone present thier personal ideas that really made sense to me.

    And on one level, that has seemed to be disconcerting, and on another level I have come to be of the opinion that perhaps that is the way it was meant to be. That the road to God or the path to a higher understanding and meaning of life is a quest in and of itself and the reward lies in our struggle to find the answer. I have some reached some definite conclusions, which I will not bother to share here, and have found a measure of peace in them. Would not say it is the all in all answer, but enough for this person to enjoy what happens from sunrise to sunset.

    Jomavrick

  • Robdar
    Robdar

    The truth according to Pink Floyd is the best truth I have found in all my studies of religion, philosophy, science, etc:

    Breathe, breathe in the air
    Don't be afraid to care
    Leave but don't leave me
    Look around and choose your own ground

    Long you live and high you fly
    And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
    And all you touch and all you see
    Is all your life will ever be

    Run, rabbit run
    Dig that hole, forget the sun
    And when at last the work is done
    Don't sit down it's time to dig another one

    For long you live and high you fly But only if you ride the tide
    And balanced on the biggest wave
    You race towards an early grave

    Enjoy your search. It promises to be a long and frustrating one.

    Robyn

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    I've come to the conclusion there is no provable answer to life and it's purpose. If there was I think it would be universally accepted. So each one of us either accept someone else's opinion or just make up our own. If you can find peace within yourself by your search, go for it. I find that to enjoy life you need to care for other people and have others in your life that love you also. Who ever wrote that bible verse that love is the most important thing in life got it right, at least in my opinion. Good luck on your search.

    Ken P.

  • donkey
    donkey

    Blue,

    All you have to go on is faith. If evidence was to be found then scientists would have confirmed it - that is afterall what they do. Contrary to what religious writers say scientists generally are truth searchers for observable, provable facts.

    All that creationists have been able to come up with can be classified into theories of myth or "logical conclusions" based on huge assumptions (eg. since the world was designed there must be a designer who must be god).

    For quite a while I lived with my doubts while clinging to my religious beliefs. I look back now and I see that I did it because I wanted to believe in something and I wanted to believe that a higher power was in control of everything and was going to either make the world better or give me a better life after this one. However, wanting something to be true does not truth make. Wasitng your life believing and spending time and money after beliefs in something as nebulous as god is something akin to insanity. Don't believe me...then take a look at something like what the Batonka Tribe do - they knock out the teeth of their wives at their wedding ceremony as they beliee this will bring the blessings of Nyamami-Nyamami (their god) to their marriage. Now we look at that and say what a bunch of savages, but they are acting in accord with their belief. The same goes for those faiths who believe in circumcision. Are these people insane or misled or pleasing god? When we take whatever actions we do (like giving up our money, time, ambitions, desires, pleasures) for some god....how are we any different? Do we have evidence that our god is stronger than Nyamami-Nyamami or that Nyamami-Nyamami is false? The Batonka cannot supply any more proof that Nyamami-Nyamami is real than any Christians can and they cannot supply any less proof either.

    Either way I am off to the dentist now

    Jack

  • freein89
    freein89

    Alrighty then, here is what I think and why,

    I began college at the ripe old age of 40. Broad Field Social Science. What I was able to gather is that religion and mysticism were invented by people to explain and manage life. Illness, death, prosperity, good times and bad. The beliefs evolved from spirits that controlled crops, weather, health and the like into formal organized religion. Religion was then perceived as a great tool to manage the behavior of people and as such was adopted by governments as they evolved, to help with control and moral issues. Religion was also a great way to raise money, greed played a part, as did the need for social programs such as education and care for elderly and children.

    The much maligned Catholic religion was and is at times wonderfully philanthropic. It appears to be a part of human nature to take whatever is at hand and use if for selfish purpose as well as good. This is a very simplistic explanation of religion and its evolution, but it gets to the heart of what I learned.

    So that is what I learned and my beliefs follow, any belief in God or lack thereof are based on the above. I am in flux, still creating a world view for myself at age 47, it is an enjoyable, frustrating and confusing journey, but interesting and fun BECAUSE I get to decide for myself now. What a beautiful thing.

    Deb

  • Zoewrex
    Zoewrex

    Blue, I'm anxious to read what may be posted here since it seems like you're asking for scientific research on our personal beliefs. 'It is what it is' doesn't fit here and so I can't really answer based on fact, my degree is in History (Ancient & Europen) and I've recently started to search for 'truths' as well.

    Regardless of what we all find out, keep in mind 'opinions are like A-holes, everyone's got one....and they can all give you different reasons why.' There are bias' in books, depending on the beliefs of the author, the publishing agency etc... historical 'fact' is always skewed depending on the dominate civilization (with writing skills) at that time. I can read a book refuting Darwin and another that defends him. Yet, they are both accurate.

    You may want to think about placing a topic concentrating on one specific question and move on from there. Just an idea....

    Disclaimer - Please note the 'opinions' quote is just a saying. I do not mean that in any type of derogatory way towards opinons or a-holes.

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