"This is not a posting to point the finger at any particular individual, but to hopefully share some relevant findings concerning apostate operation with this board.
The question of what constitutes apostasy, or rather what doesn’t constitute apostasy does not proffer the obscure indeterminate answer that some opponents have assumed. Instead, it is a keenly documented scriptural truth that pries into the heart and emotional inclination of all people whether mindful of it or not.
The legitimacy of questioning and subsequently proofing any particular doctrinal understanding that presents itself to an individual is not without scriptural precedent (compare 1 John 4:1). Yet, this is not the issue I want to briefly address here. Rather, it is the motivation behind such questioning of some people that apparently needs to be given greater attention than the question itself. This becomes evident when a person believes they have no other recourse than to turn to opposers and/or defectors for clarification of troubling matters – thus laying the groundwork for the potentiality of further exploitation.
Hence, sometimes more important than ‘why’ certain individuals are dissatisfied with the role the WTS plays in their spiritual lives is ‘what’ leads these ones to a course of dissatisfaction (and perhaps eventually to opposition) in the first place? This is a long and often difficult study in itself, due mostly to the complexity of situations that lend a person to search for rationality or respite from foreign sources while being in the midst of a personal dilemma. Be that as it may however, it is an important concept that those seeking Jehovah’s friendship do well to consider…
It is my hope that all of us will think candidly about the processes driving disaffection and apostasy despite the fact that they entail a great deal of self-analysis and disclosure; and are often not easily observed, since the “heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate.” (Jeremiah 17:9) Yet honesty concerning one’s motivations is an integral factor in determining whether an individual will accept or repudiate refining counsel or understanding that comes from the engine room of Jehovah’s earthly organisation. If not, a person may silently become disaffected and subsequently turn to apostate information due to seemingly rational, faith based judgements. In truth however, this is no more than the foundering of decision justified by scrutiny.
Examining this point, I would like to cheat (sorry) and paste a quotation from a paper that I am working on concerning this issue.
“When under the influence of apostate ideology, the person affected by this thinking experiences an often difficult and sometimes confusing array of emotions. For one to have their life so drastically altered that there arises open repudiation against ones former associates there first has to occur what could be termed a deconversion – reconversion process. This process, which happens prior to their renouncement and subsequent hostility, is the culmination of many long hours spent pondering various discrepancies, spiritual or scriptural, that have hijacked the individuals disposition and absorbed it into one of brooding, fascination and speculation concerning the congregation and its convictions.”
I will stop there…
Needless to say, I hope that any who may be inclined to engage a known apostate in dialogue will reconsider – not only for the hitherto reasons, but more importantly because of the biblical mandate against such an act. (Romans 16:17)
I would like to briefly discuss just why some individuals, in spite of receiving a higher education and having a keen mind, can momentarily or forth-rightly fall into the snare of apostate reasoning. I use this term liberally, not to label persons as such, but to describe their manner of thinking as it is subject to the constraints of an oppositional viewpoint. It has come to my attention, and indeed many others, that some Witnesses have chosen to stand against the society on various issues; resulting in confusion and perturbation on the part of those less comprehensive of selective topics. Yet, one should not be too surprised at such seemingly distressing events. Professor Bryan Wilson, reader Emeritus in Sociology at Oxford University correctly observes in a 1994 paper on apostasy:
"Every religion which makes claim to a definitive body of doctrine and practice which it regards as exclusively its own, is likely to be faced with the fact that from time to time some erstwhile members will relinquish their allegiance and cease to subscribe to the formalities of the faith, in at least some, perhaps all, of its teachings, practices, organization, and discipline."
To be sure, this is a sad consequence of those who decide that their own doctrinal understanding, or that of another presents itself as a more expedient solution to questions that may arise from the mouth of those who seek to dissuade others from considering the Witnesses as a viable theological choice. Of course, freedom to choose ones belief is a credit to the Creators wisdom in that it allows personal motive to be exposed. However, this freedom is often coerced by some who have no other design than to repudiate their former associates through the exposition of alleged doctrinal error. Herein lies an important axiom that all who may be unaware of the negative effects of apostate ideology do well to consider; namely ‘APOSTASY DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE.’ It cares not for qualification or erudition. The reason for this is that apostasy originates from the heart. It therefore searches for a loophole within the framework of ones moral sensibilities simply because it can, and it can because it originates from the heart. Hence, an ideology or philosophy generated through entropy, in this case apostasy, will do more to systematically corrode one’s moral resilience than almost any other form of defection. By its very nature apostate thinking seeks religious disaffiliation as its ultimate goal. Notice how Wilson briefly construes the impetus behind the apostate mindset,
"The disaffected and the apostate are in particular informants whose evidence has to be used with circumspection. The apostate is generally in need of self-justification. He seeks to reconstruct his own past, to excuse his former affiliations, and to blame those who were formerly his closest associates".
In harmony with this, a similar article by Lonnie D. Kliever, Professor of Religious Studies at Southern Methodist University concludes:
"… apostates always act out of a scenario that vindicates themselves by shifting responsibility for their actions to the religious group. Indeed, the various brainwashing scenarios so often invoked against the new religious movements have been overwhelmingly repudiated by social scientists and religion scholars as nothing more than calculated efforts to discredit the beliefs and practices of unconventional religions in the eyes of governmental agencies and public opinion. Such apostates can hardly be regarded as reliable informants by responsible journalists, scholars, or jurists."
A further point to consider when investigating the engine driving disaffection and apostasy is pride, which is capable of reconstructing a person’s self image AND the image presented by others. For instance, when under the influence of extreme pride ‘assurance’ can often become ‘self-assurance’ and conviction of belief can turn to ‘convicted belief.’ This unfortunate reversal occurs primarily due to the emphasis of conviction being transferred from the object (in this case an individual’s religious fraternity), to the subject (or in other words the prideful person). Hence, no longer is one’s religious institution the provider of instruction, but instead becomes a harness that has lost its usefulness, since now the primary source of spiritual edification is qualified by personal preference. This dynamic shift of everything that one may have considered certain has become misappropriated by pride and then hidden from the individual by pride itself!! Yet, very often this ball can be put in motion through the cordial reception granted to apostate reasoning. It is for good reason then that Jehovah admonished his people not to take themselves too seriously when he warned,
"Pride is before a crash and a haughty spirit before stumbling" (Proverbs 16:1
Yet, this self-destructive progression often goes unnoticed even though the scriptures explain how such ruination is transferred. For the inspired writer states that it is by his ‘mouth’ that an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin (Proverbs 11:9a) Subsequently, when one uses apostate information to inform, teach or excuse they are unwittingly succumbing to apostasy themselves. Via these avenues apostasy then empowers apostasy. (By this I mean to define the influence that apostate ideology has over its victim, in that apostasy engenders pride within an individual and then feeds off this same pride in order to fortify the defection… And so the cycle continues…)
It is not difficult to see therefore how this viscous circle deceptively stifles the intellect’s ability to commit to ‘certainty’ in faith when doubt inevitably becomes the by-product of inquiry into apostate reasoning. Consequently, regardless of the intellectual or social aptitude of the one searching through apostate material, there is often a betrayal, not necessarily of conviction of truth at first but of comprehending the insidious power inherent in apostate views. That is the REAL DANGER! By not understanding this, or even worse, considering themselves impervious to it’s subtle allure, some have pulled the wool over their own eyes and subjected themselves to the masquerades of falsity, half truth and manipulated truth as being veritable truth itself! In an unfinished paper concerning the social dynamics of apostasy, this writer has listed three important reminders for consideration when confronted by the taunts of apostate ideology:
"By attempting to elicit a favourable emotive response to their information, they [apostates] are therefore able to set the snare that leads to doubt. The exponent of this data understands this and is therefore better able to use such information to emphasise apparent discrepancies, hypocrisy’s, inconsistencies and the like in order to play on the potential insecurities of the reader. Consequently, the recipient of apostate information is at a distinct disadvantage in three very profound ways.
1. The recipient does not usually know if the author’s words are true or false
2. The recipient does not usually know if the author is mixing truth with falsehood
3. The recipient is usually unable to verify allegations and/or assertions
The apostate knows this and is therefore capable of manipulating the person who cannot or does not recognise the inherent dangers in considering apostate convictions."
Although there is much more to be said concerning the administration of apostate dogma, perhaps the most important question if one is tempted to consider the viewpoint and/or doctrinal treaty of a defector is,
"If it is important to comprehend an apostates argument ‘of scripture’… Why did God see it important to condemn it ‘through scripture?’" (compare Romans 16:17, Titus 3:10)
The truth is, it is impossible to answer this question by affirming the initial premise without contravening Jehovah’s injunction against defectors and their viewpoint."
This I found on the net, some comments?
What is an Apostate?
by happy man 27 Replies latest jw friends
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happy man
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link
Hi Happy Man,
The answer to your question will depend upon who you ask. If you ask a Jehovahs Witness it will be anything spoken or written, or any person, that does not agree entirely with Watchtower doctrine and dogma. Hence you can have apostate books, apostate web sites and apostate people.
This is not the dictionary definition, just the J.W.s.
link
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pettygrudger
Interesting read, will have to re-read as some of it was quite "wordy" - definitely not laid out in layman terms! But what I got from it was that the author is basically saying (in a nutshell) that those who cannot/do not want to follow along the moral guidelines of any particular faith may use that as an opportunity to scrutinize the faith to the point where they no longer have to follow those guidelines, and in their quest may bring down others with them.
All I can say to this is that the scripture where Jesus said anyone false witnessing in his name, not to follow. Based on that scripture, and all the known & well documented errors in not only reasoning, but also false prophecy, the JW's do not fit the bill. And the JW's are one of the few religions that condemns unconditionally anyone to death that does not follow their faith to the tee.
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blondie
Happyman, you should be more concered what the WTS thinks an apostate is. By visiting here, according to the information below, you are in dangerous territory.
11/99 Kingdom Ministry
p. 3 Use of the Internet—Be Alert to the Dangers!Much has been stated in our publications about the obvious spiritual dangers encountered on the Internet.
In addition to these dangers, there is a more insidious danger that Jehovah’s Witnesses in particular need to be on guard against. What is this danger?
Would you invite a stranger into your home without first finding out who he is? What if there was no way to find out?
Would you allow such a stranger to be alone with your children? This is an indisputable possibility on the Internet.With this danger in mind, if you use the Internet, ask yourself: ‘What do I use it for?
Is there a possibility that I could be harmed spiritually by how I am using it? Could I be contributing to the spiritual injury of others?’
5/1/00 WT
p. 10 Firmly Uphold Godly Teaching9
Some apostates are increasingly using various forms of mass communication, including the Internet, to spread false information about Jehovah’s Witnesses. As a result, when sincere individuals do research on our beliefs, they may stumble across apostate propaganda. Even some Witnesses have unwittingly exposed themselves to this harmful material. In addition, apostates occasionally take part in television or radio programs. What is the wise course to follow in view of this?
10
The apostle John directed Christians not to accept apostates into their homes. He wrote: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." (2 John 10, 11) Avoiding all contact with these opponents will protect us from their corrupt thinking. Exposing ourselves to apostate teachings through the various means of modern communication is just as harmful as receiving the apostate himself into our homes. Never should we allow curiosity to lure us into such a calamitous course!—Proverbs 22:3.
8/1/93 WT
p. 17 Let No One Spoil Your Useful HabitsModern computers have opened other avenues to bad association
. Some commercial firms enable subscribers using a computer and a telephone to send a message to electronic bulletin boards; a person can thus post on the bulletin board a message that is open to all subscribers. This has led to so-called electronic debates on religious matters. A Christian might be drawn into such debates and may spend many hours with an apostate thinker who may have been disfellowshipped from the congregation. The direction at 2 John 9-11 underscores Paul’s fatherly counsel about avoiding bad associations.7/1/92 WT
p. 19 Elders, Judge With Righteousness18
On the other hand, when members of a judicial committee are confronted with a clear case of remorseless apostasy , willful rebellion against Jehovah’s laws, or sheer wickedness, their duty is to protect the other members of the congregation by disfellowshipping the unrepentant offender . The judicial committee is not obliged to meet repeatedly with the wrongdoer or put words in his mouth, trying to force him to repent, if it is obvious he lacks godly sorrow.
4/1/83 WT
p. 24 Reject Apostasy, Cling to the Truth!18
Moreover, if a dedicated servant of Jehovah were to entertain such a deceptive teacher in his home, he would become "an accomplice" in the "wicked deeds" of that person. (The New English Bible) Therefore, no loyal modern-day witness of Jehovah would greet a disfellowshipped or disassociated apostate or allow that one to use his Christian home as a place from which to spread doctrinal error. Surely, there would be grave accountability before God if a believer extended hospitality to an apostate and this resulted in the spiritual death of a fellow worshiper of Jehovah.—Compare Romans 16:17, 18; 2 Timothy 3:6, 7.
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jgnat
Apostacy Aid to Bible Understanding page 91...However, in the Christian Greek Scriptures it is used primarily with regard to religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith.
A falling away or departure from a previously maintained orthodox position (as in certain denominations which once held to orthodoxy but have rejected it). Adj.: "apostate."
Definition from: "A Biblical Guide To Orthodoxy And Heresy Part One: The Case For Doctrinal Discernment" (an article from the Christian Research Journal, Summer 1990, page 28) by Robert M. Bowman.
Also: renunciation of a previously held religious faith, or abandonment of a previous loyalty (e.g. a cult member who defects).
See also: definition of Orthodoxy
My thoughts:Since the Jehovah’s Witnesses have drifted away from some of the central doctrines of Christianity, they would be regarded as Apostate by orthodox Christianity. Also, by both definitions, I am not an Apostate. Are my words therefore by definition, trustworthy?
...by the way, Happy Man, when did you learn to spell? Whatever method you used, you should market it and sell it.
(WT quotes in red)
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AlanF
Thanks for posting that article, HappyMan.
The article is a fine example of the self-serving, pseudo-scholarly rhetoric that borders on gibberish engaged in by Watchtower apologists. All it really amounts to is a bald assertion of the Fundamental Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses: "You must pretend that the Governing Body speaks for God and is always right."
The article's basic premise is ridiculous, because if used in a general religious context -- i.e., outside the realm of JWs -- it means that no one should ever change his religion, since anyone who changes his religion is an "apostate". This means that the article is arguing against the "preaching work" of Jehovah's Witnesses, since the goal of this is to make "apostates" of everyone they preach to.
AlanF
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berylblue
I am sorry, I'm dumb, I realize it....I can't ascertain if you wrote this, Happy, or someone else.
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jgnat
Beryl, you crack me up. I think the first and the last sentences are Happy's. Neither have any spelling mistakes.
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mouthy
My answer to your question Happy man !!!!!Is your name > A HAPPY MAN!!!! especially if it is against the watchtower!!!
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berylblue
Oh! I didn't criticize the spelling...I just couldn't figure out who wrote it. I thought perhaps Happy did, but then I saw Alan's comment and figured, well if Alan thinks it did not originate from Happy, then it must not have.
Then I got upset with myself; I'm going to take Alan's word for everything just because he is, imho, a genius? Isn't that how I got into the WTS? Too dumb to research on my own, I took the WTS advice on everything.
See my post "Intellectually Lazy" to see what has prompted this current fit of self-despair.
As for spelling, I didn't comment on that. Well, that's not true. I ALWAYS criticize others' spelling mistakes, but don't usually post about them. Just sit here and mumble to myself about the failures of the US educational system.