What's Fair About This??

by worldlygirl 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  worldlygirl

  I've asked my husband about this many times, and he always manages to skirt the issue. Here is the point I try to get across to him:

  First of all, you have to agree that God is fundamentally fair (he agrees with me on this point.) And God can read hearts, right? (He agrees with this, too.) So if someone say, lives in China, hasn't gotten a Witness, and has a good heart, then they get a second chance, right? (Yes.) And lets say someone who lives down the street from us, believes in God, lives a good, clean, moral life, but they prefer their own religion even though a JW has on occasion knocked on their door and given them a witness - no matter how poorly executed. They die, right? (This is when he stops answering.)

  Here is the kicker - Okay, let's assume that you are right, and Armageddon comes. Chinaman is still here but Neighborman is toast. Now, explain the fairness of this. Don't you think it would be a LITTLE EASIER for Chinaman to accept the doctrine after God himself has killed everybody else on the entire freaking earth except the Witnesses? Don't you think this little detail would have made it slightly easier for Neighborman to accept the TRUTH? Personally, I think the Witnesses are a bunch of fruitcakes, but if the Almighty Jehovah pays a visit and explains things personally, I don't think I would have too much of a problem changing my tune!!!!!
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  greven

  You are absolutely right.

  Greven
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  blondie

  Worldlygirl,

  I was just discussing this with my husband on the way to work this morning. I have been clearing out some of my computer files, keepers and losers.

  I found this:

  6/1/52 WT p 344-5 Fixing Destinies in This Judgment Period ***

  
  COMMUNITY RESPONSIBILITY

  In view of the eternalness of the destruction of those slain by Jehovah at Armageddon, some will ask about those who may not personally hear the message, especially in some lands that prohibit the witness work. In addition to family responsibility the Bible shows a communal or community responsibility, where a community upholds or goes along with rulers that persecute Jehovah’s people or are otherwise wicked. Did not the Egyptians suffer plagues because of Pharaoh’s hardness? (Ex. 5:1, 2; 9:13-16) Did not the Amalekites suffer for generations afterward because of Amalek’s opposition to Israel in the wilderness? (Ex. 17:8, 14, 16) King Saul brought trouble on Israel years after his death. (2 Sam. 21:1) David’s sins brought punishment upon the people. (2 Sam. 12:10-23; 24:10-17) Some relate some of this to ruler punishment rather than community responsibility, but it does show how the sins of one can affect many. It was unquestionably community responsibility when Achan trespassed and brought a military defeat on Israel. (Josh. 7:5, 13-21) Wicked men brought destruction upon the entire city of Gibeah, and those who supported Gibeah or merely refrained from helping punish her suffered with her. (Judg. 19:22-30; 20:40; 21:9, 10) Because King Jehoram of Judah deflected from God the nation went wrong and was punished. (2 Chron. 21:11-15) If idolatry started in a city in Israel and corrupted the inhabitants the city was destroyed. And other examples could be given. (Gen. 12:17; 20:9, 17; 26:10; Deut. 13:12-18) Matthew 10:14, 15, 23 shows households or cities that are unreceptive to the message will find judgment day unendurable. The principle applies on a national scale also.

  The problem with this reasoning is that according to the WTS all these people died and went to Sheol to be resurrected at a later date. The WTS teaches that people who die at Armageddon are going to Gehenna, and will not have a resurrection. The WTS is comparing apples to oranges.

  The Wizard of Oz was on this weekend, I can hear the Wizard saying, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
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  bittersweet

  I had a somewhat similar conversation with my husband recently.I said that he believes that only witnesses will be saved at Armaggedon, and he said that's not true, that Jehovah reads hearts, and there could be others. I brought up the conversation, because I said why is it fair for the people who have already died to have a second chance, yet the people who are alive( or rather soon to be killed ) during Armaggedon don't. He didn't really have a good answer to that one.

  Funny though, when he said that witnesses didn't teach that they were the absolute only ones to be saved, I said he must be in a different religion than the one I grew up in, because that's what I was taught.

  I share your frustrations, worldlygirl!!
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  blondie

  bittersweet, I don't have my research here, but it is official WTS doctrine that only baptized, dedicated JWs and their minor offspring will survive; the only thing they quibble with is mentally challenged people (and it is not automatic with them either) and the mentally ill. It is wishful thinking on his part and probably a fear of facing what the WTS teaches. These quotes are more current that the above one.

  Blondie
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  happyout

  I'm sorry, were you looking for logic in this religion????

  Happyout (tears of laughter streaming from her eyes)
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  Mutz

  I agree with happyout. You will never find logic in anything the Witnesses believe. Just a cobbled together conglomeration of 'stuff' adjusted to suit the current thinking of the old codgers in Brooklyn. You'll go nuts before you find sense in their teachings. :)
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  safe4kids

  Yay, Worldlygirl!!! Welcome to the ability to actually reason on things, rather than accepting what is force fed to you under the guise of "meat". In my experience, once a person has begun to look at JW "reasoning" (which, btw, is a euphimism for blindly accepting whatever they're told by the GB), it becomes impossible to not see the fallacies that exist EVERYWHERE in the doctrines of the dubs. Here's hoping that your husband will soon begin to see what you are already able to discern.

  Dana
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  Gamaliel

  Excellent point!

  I just had that same discussion with a couple of Mormon elders that stopped by on Sunday. They believe that all humans lived as spirits in a spiritual realm, and then they are born as humans when the time comes. So my question was: Who chooses which ones get to be born in America, where most Mormon missionaries are ready to help them, and who chose over a billion of them to get born in India over the last 50 years, and another billion in China in an even shorter period of time? Why did some get born when no Mormon missionaries existed on the earth, and now when you've got plenty of Mormons on the earth, most of the last few billion spirits got transferred to places where they'll still never hear about Mormons? God isn't trying to keep them from you is he?

  Their answer? "Oh, but we do have Mormon missionaries in India!"

  My further question: Then why is it that you get to walk leisurely through my small neighborhood for the last month in just this one part of town, when those missionaries would have to cover at least 2,000,000 people in the same amount of time to be as fair to them?

  It's so much more fun talking to them with a background in JWism!

  Gamaliel
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  Been there

  I asked this very question to my Granny many years ago who raised me as a witness. This is the logic that told me for sure that this was not the God I wanted to love. (I later went on the next year to get baptised so I could get married in the KH, the only reason)

  I spent my last year of High School living with my exhusbands grandmother in the evenings so I could go to a certain H.S. because I lived just outside the school district. This woman was the sweetest, kindest most gentle person I had ever met. She was a devout Methodist. No drinking, smoking, dancing or anything else deemed ungodly by her church. She taught sunday school for 50 years, raised all 8 of her kids to be loving, God fearing upstanding people. I told my Granny that there was no way in my mind that God could kill someone who devoted her life to him, just because she was not a JW. Nope did'nt make a bit of sence to me. I knew then I had a differant God then my Granny did. This lady loved her God with every fiber of her soul, had all her life. I did'nt love my God like that! and I would live and she would not. Nope, did'nt add up.