The WT has failed to explain fundamental doctrines

by Kosonen 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • TonusOH

    As I understood it, the ransom is paid to God. When Adam and Eve sinned, they sinned against God. The blood sacrifice that cleansed those sins from the ledger would be paid to God, and he would then forgive the sin. That is how blood sacrifices worked in Israel, wasn't it?

    I think the difficulty in explaining it, is that the concept is not very intuitive. Especially the part where the guilt for the sin is passed on to humanity, and the blood sacrifice therefore cleanses us of a sin we didn't commit, and doesn't redeem Adam and Eve. But it also wasn't a typical blood sacrifice, so the rules don't necessarily have to be the same.

  • slimboyfat

    Aha you are right, Watchtower says the ransom is paid to God. I don’t know how I missed that all these years.

    17 To whom, though, would that ransom be paid? For centuries Christendom’s theologians argued that it was paid to Satan the Devil. The fact is that mankind has been “sold under” sin and thus has come under the control of Satan. (Romans 7:14; 1 John 5:19) Still, Jehovah, not Satan, “exacts punishment” for wrongdoing. (1 Thessalonians 4:6) Therefore, as Psalm 49:7 explicitly states, the ransom is to be paid “to God.” Jehovah makes the ransom available, but after the Lamb of God has been sacrificed, the value of his ransom must be paid to God. (Compare Genesis 22:7, 8, 11-13; Hebrews 11:17.) This does not reduce the ransom to a pointless, mechanical exchange, as if money were taken out of one pocket and put in another. The ransom involves not so much a physical exchange as a legal transaction. By insisting that a ransom be paid​—even at great cost to himself—​Jehovah affirmed his unwavering adherence to righteous principles.​—James 1:17.
  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    I let myself in and delved into the library with the old written indexes. I looked up everything all about the ransom. Having read it all, I finally got it… Job done.

    I think the WT has explained The Ransom fairly well. They perfectly misrepresent what the Ransom actually is. It is obvious to me that what the WT tries to do with their doctrine of the Ransom is to bolster the idea of "corporateness", so that the great Christian doctrine of Substitution is obscured. Classic misdirection.

    Their story goes something like this: Sin resides in Adam. So, since you are from Adam you can't be resurrected. The idea of personal sins, ones you must personally account for is diminished and not addressed.

    So, in their teaching Jesus ransomed Adam, became the second Adam and now all you have to do is find the right religion that Jesus chose and presto.... you can get saved.

    But the reality is that :

    1. There will be a personal judgement AFTER you die. (Hebrews 9: 27) This why people need a personal Savior and not a corporate one

    2. Jesus offers to be a scape goat for you personally, become the sins you have committed, and die in your place, for your sins.

    For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Cor. 5 21) Jesus "substitutes" for the death due sinners, who accept the offer.

    It is a very generous offer.

    In Christianity, Jesus is offering to trade places with you, take the death penalty due you, and then afterwards, vicariously impute his righteousness (the state of being debt-free) to your account.

    By contrast, there is no freedom or relief from debt in Watchtowerism. There you have, to hop, skip and jump to the ever-changing whims and doctrines of men and devils. And, that's as good as it gets. There is still judgment and debt to pay for your sins after death.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Sea Breeze

    You are not attributing the last sentence to Watchtowerism are you?

  • Vanderhoven7

    Why I ask is because of their teaching that those who die before Armageddon have paid for their sins by their death. At least that is what some JWs have told me. So JWs who have struggled hard for the organization end up on equal footing with fornicators and adulterers in the resurrection.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    I meant for the whole last paragraph to apply to those under Watchtowerism, including the so-called anointed since they are double cursed under the stipulations of Gal. 1: 8-9

    You are referring to Romans 6: 7

    Note WT teaching here:

    Romans 6:7
    has been acquitted: Or “has been released (pardoned).” Lit., “has been justified.” The Greek word di·kai·oʹo used here is often rendered “to declare righteous.” The context shows that Paul was discussing spirit-anointed Christians alive at that time. They had been baptized into Christ Jesus and had received the valid prospect of heavenly life. However, in order to be anointed with holy spirit and accepted as spirit-begotten sons of God, they had to die figuratively to their former course of life as imperfect humans and have their sins forgiven by God. Then they could have human perfection imputed to them.

    So, first they agree that the death in Romans 6: 7 is figurative... which it is. But they they turn around and say the opposite:

    In discussing this with regard to anointed Christians, Paul was drawing on a fundamental truth. He knew that the penalty for Adam’s sin was death. (Ge 2:17) So Paul reasons that one who has died has been acquitted from sin because by means of his death, he has paid the full penalty for sin. At Ro 6:23, Paul says: “The wages sin pays is death.” So when a person has died, his sinful record no longer stands against him. And if it were not for Jesus’ sacrifice and God’s purpose to resurrect the person, he would never live again. Still, he would remain acquitted from sin, since God would not reexamine his case and then sentence him to further punishment.

    So, under WT teaching a person can also die physically, pay for their sins themselves, and still not be resurrected.

    All complete horse manure. The WT will never quote Hebrews 9: 27 which states that theere will be a judgement after you die.

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