Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Charles Gillette
    Charles Gillette

    Elvis sang a song,"Don't Be Cruel" to a heart that's true. In my heart of hearts figuratively speaking,I will not harm another sentient being. I don't need a God or a law book to tell me not to or else. There is no punishment or reward for my actions. It is just right that I don't want to be treated cruel by others and so I won't treat them cruel either.

    However,I'm not talking about someone who does harm to me or my family or yours. Then it is up to whatever laws there are thoughout society to measure out just punishment.

    So, the basis for morality I think, lies within each and every one of us.And lies the rub,because we have different feelings on what is morality when it comes to us personally and what we experience in our treatment from others.

    In closing I would say to whomever wrote those words Don't be cruel,thank you. Blueblades

  • Perry
  • flipper

    In my opinion the basis for morality has nothing to do with God, religion, or whether a person attends church. Some of the most spiritual, moral, and ethical people I've known are non-religious, atheist, or agnostic. And the reason for that is that they want to be moral, ethical, and kind because it creates better relationships with their fellow humans and makes for peace. These aren't people who expect some pie in the sky reward for being " good " or " moral " - these are people who act moral or ethical because they desire or want to act that way to create harmony & peace wth their fellowman or woman.

    The idea that Christians or JW's seem to have that nobody will act kind, ethical, or loving without influence from the Bible, God, or some kind of religious control over them is absolute bullshit. I've seen many a claimed " Christian " in my time act totally unethical in the thinking " Oh well, God will forgive me because I'm a born sinner inheriting sin from Adam & Eve " . Which is just a cop out in my opinion to excuse boorish, unethical behavior. Christianity creates a lot of loopholes for people to claim the fake " inherited sin " or " evil " to excuse ridiculous behavior. Just my 2 cents here. Great thread by the way. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • wallsofjericho

    Is murder evil because it’s evil?

    Or because God’s says it’s evil?

    if the former, then good and evil exist without god

    if the latter, then god created evil

  • Finkelstein

    Gods were used to strengthen moral codes of social behavior but the original thoughts with intent came from man.

    ie. the ten commandants

  • Perry

    Without God, the basis for morality is subjective. The idea that morality can be deduced by trial and error on what makes a society successful or peaceful is itself also subjective, since "success" itself connotes subjective meaning.

    Some cultures have institutional unforgiveness taught and practiced as a norm, and have done so for a VERY long time. They believe that only those that are deserving should be forgiven. Of course if a person deserves to be forgiven then he has earned it, and cannot really qualify for forgiveness.

    In Western culture, because of our Christian heritage we put a premium on forgiveness & grace whenever possible. As a Christian, I can state that because I have been forgiven, I am under obligation to do the same. My morality is rooted in God.

    Sometimes forgiveness is not possible, true. But the ethic is there looking for the opportunity. The atheist may do the exact same thing, but for different reasons. And, since he doesn't exist for God, he might just as easily change his mind as his rationale changes.

    And what do you do when a group of people believe they can only experience peace, when for example they see you and your family marginalized, demoted, or exterminated ? The morality-derived- from-peace model goes out the window, that's what happens. Because, whose peace are we talking about; yours or theirs?

  • Finkelstein

    If man created god, then man also created the morality of the gods they envisioned.

  • Ireneus

    Jesus did not say we have to be ethical because God exists, but implied when we are ethical we reflect God (Mathew 5:9)

  • cofty

    Perry - you have argued against a straw-man that nobody has argued for.

    Would you actually like to have a sincere discussion about morality? Why not read previous posts on the thread about the objective foundation for godless morality and respond to what has actually been said.

  • smiddy3

    Is God Jehovah/Yahweh ?Jesus for some , of the christian bible moral ?

    I don`t think so

    He lusts after blood, think of all of the animal sacrifices made to him in the O.T. and his his creations .?

    Millions of animals not to mention the birds were slaughtered during those first four Centuries before Jesus Christ. because of his lust for blood.

    He condoned genocide by the Israelites of one country after another slaughtering man woman and child in many cases and for the victors the Jews to take virgins as spoils for war.

    { And what do you think the victors are going to do with the virgins ? }

    And have you ever thought about how the virgins would feel about what the victors are going to do to them ?

    How would you feel about being raped and forced into marriage by your conquerors ? Do you think that`s moral ?

    How about slaughtering all of humanity in the flood of Noah`s day as well as all of the animals on earth simply because they didn`t listen to Noah ? an imperfect human being ? Why would anybody listen to him ?

    And why kill off all the animals in the process and apparently none of the marine life suffered with the deluge .

    Wasn`t that discrimination ?

    Of course Jehovah God couldn`t speak to humans as that was beneath him to do so but it would have been the more moral thing to do wouldn`t it ?

    Is the N.T. any better ? I don`t think so . Jesus said he came to put a sword against families /divide them.

    He also has no problem with the prospect of seeing Millions of people destroyed at the Great Tribulation and Armageddon of which he is to be principal combatant.

    And even after the Thousand years of Christs rule millions of people are to be destroyed again because they number the sands of the sea which no man can number ? A period of "Paradise" most J.W.`s look forward to .

    I`ve got news for them .

    What morality does this God stand for ?

    I rest my case .

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