Jayk - There you go. I am in the UK and don't watch much American TV as I can't relate to it.
i dont know if climate change is real or not
Keep an open mind. Live for today. enjoy today. TV is full of crap, just like religion.
Jayk » So will Armageddon be the biblical one we read about or is it probably going to be a government ban on Christians that we will perceive as Armageddon?
What exactly do you perceive the biblical one as being?
According to most biblical scholars, Armageddon is an endtime event -- a battle, actually -- that takes place outside of Jerusalem in the Golan Heights. According to Ezekiel, Zechariah and John, it occurs when a coalition of Muslim nations combines to make war with the Jews just before the Second Coming of Christ.
Zechariah says this coalition will seek to destroy the Jews, but will be held back by the hand of God.
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
At the head of these nations "round about" Jerusalem is a warlord called Gog, the chief prince of Magog. Ezekiel spells out that the coalition will be comprised of "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee." Magog consists mostly of Turkey and the Soviet Republics of Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and the northern parts of Afghanistan. Some believe "Rosh" to be Russia because of the similarity in sound, but the word means "head of," not a location. Persia is Iran, obviously; Cush is Sudan; Put is Libya; Gomer, central Turkey, and Tonarmah the southeastern part of Turkey. All these nations today form a nice neat circle around Israel.
Gog will be the one Christians call the Antichrist. John, in Revelation 17:9-11, speaks of seven kings and seven mountains, or empires. These seven are 1) Egypt 2) Assyria 3) Babylonian 4) Medes and Persians 5) Greek 6) Rome and 7) Turkish Caliphate.
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Of these seven, John is writing in the times of the sixth king, which is ROME. Five of the kings had fallen, he's writing in the time of the sixth king and he's telling us to watch the kingdom that will follow Rome. The "other is not yet come," he wrote, and when it comes, he said, watch it, for "he must continue a short space." After the Roman Empire fell, the Muslim Caliphate established itself almost seamlessly, and it continued until 1922. Now watch what John says about the identity of the Beast: "five are fallen, and [ROME] is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And here it is: "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. The Turkish Caliphate is the one that was, and is not, even he is the eighth. Thus, the seven empires come and go. John says that the seventh will cease to be "after a short space," but "even he is the eighth." This eighth will be the Antichrist.
John also saw a beast rise out of the sea with seven heads and ten horns. "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." The seven heads are the seven empires, and one of the heads was wounded unto death. The ten horns are rulers. Since Gog will be the chief prince or "head" of Magog, we don't yet know who the ten kings are, but the nations spoken of by Ezekiel are all nations, the territory of which was controlled by the Caliphate. Thus, the Caliphate was, was not, and is again. Or at least it will be, and this is a good way of testing prophecy. If ISIS and other Islamic fundamentalists want to revive the Turkish Caliphate to its former days of glory, and are able, it will be a major evidence that the JW Governing Body is wrong in its views of Armageddon!
Okay, we have Gog and his armies moving on Jerusalem. See Ezekiel 38-39. God intervenes and helps the Jews fend off their enemies.
Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, to take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land. (Ezekiel 38:9-12)
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. (38:8-9)
Note the prophetic precision in which the Lord speaks of it being in the "latter times" (latter days). It will be a time when His people had had been gathered out of many people and brought forth out of the nations. This wasn't true in Daniel's time, or in John's day. The only time in history when the Jews have been gathered out of many nations and peoples is in our day...today. Thus, the fulfillment of this prophecy is set for our day.
In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. (Zechariah 12:8-11)
The Jews, to escape their enemies, finally rush to the chasm created when the Mount of Olives split. There they see their Messiah descend into their midst. But then they see the wounds in his hands and it suddenly occurs to them who their Messiah is. When this happens, the entire nation goes into mourning because he will identify himself. While this is happening, Gog attempts a direct assault on the Jewish Messiah and He responds with a firestorm that destroys all but a sixth part of Gog's forces. From that time forth, both the Jews and the heathen who survive will know the Lord as One. Those in the nations surrounding Israel who do not go up to Jerusalem to join in the Feast of the Tabernacles will be punished with famine and plague until they do.
And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. (Zechariah 14:9-11)
After the great battle of Armageddon, the nations surrounding Jerusalem will be required to make reparations. They will be required to make peace with the Jews and put an end to their generations of seething hatred. Today in Islamic literature, from the Qur'an to the Hadiths and the traditions, the Muslims have been building up to expect a war with the Jews. "The wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance" and it will be gathered to build back up the holy city of David.
This is just a portion of the story of Armageddon, but it's quite different that the non-biblical Armageddon that the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught is coming. It's not even remotely the same.
So will Armageddon be the biblical one we read about or is it probably going to be a government ban on Christians that we will perceive as Armageddon?
It always baffles me that people come to this forum asking that kind of questions.
Since you asked, anyway, I'll answer anyway. There's not such thing as some Armageddon coming. I know that sometimes having over 1,000 TV channels one still can't find something good to watch, but in this case, I'd suggest to follow whatever pseudo-celebrity is in the news. That seems more relevant than waiting for Armageddon.
Armageddon will be Biblical. The government ban on Christians will happen before Armageddon.
Armageddon could have been avoided:
Since it's all about killing humans, if God could almost wipe out everyone human being during the Flood & plans on destroying humans again at Armageddon then why not just destroy Adam & Eve before they had any children and start over again, and keep starting over if necessary, until he got the perfect couple, since it's all about killing humans?
There would be less collateral damage. All of the human suffering, all of the wars and diseases could have been avoided etc etc
But I guess God can only be satisfied if there's some drama.
HB: The whole belief thing is rooted in imagination and human yearnings for something better.
Quit worrying about a mythical fantasy designed to induce fear and controllability.
It's time to get on with your life. Worry about the things that are real and you can actually do something about!
I try not to be all conspiracy theoriest but there're most likely things going on bigger than you and I. I'm not talking Chem trails or flat earth stuff.. But mass population control (abortions) and nukes at the press of a button. Our world isn't looking like the best place right now. Abortion is a womens choice, the subject is tricky but ultimately women's choices. So you understand I don't have any WTS view on that. But abortion is a form of population control..
If the world is going to end it won't be by means of divine intervention it will be man's doing. The deadline for the world to end by means of divine intervention has long passed (it was supposed to have ended during Jesus' generation).
World events have no Biblical significance. If every generation that comes along can read Biblical significance into world events then that tells you that Bible prophecies are VAGUE & AMBIGUOUS. The hallmark of a true prophecy is that it must be specific to the point where it can have only ONE fulfillment not many possible fulfillments in every generation.
deegee: "--it was supposed to have ended during Jesus' generation).
By the time "--Armageddon--" was written, that generation was already overlapping. so, that "--god will be destroying those destroying the Earth--" has ring of truth to it for the 20, 21 st centuries. Current wt teaching gives us to 2075.