1935 ??? where and who started this in JW Land ???

by run dont walk 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • run dont walk
    run dont walk

    I've always wondered about the 1935 BS that heavens doors were closed.

    Does the Watchtower still firmly believe this ???

    was this started by Rutherford ??? if yes, why are the rest of his teachings faded away, especially Beth sarim and Abraham's return.

    Who could possibly think for a moment that God would close his door at a certain time.

    People are getting smarter and smarter, technoligy is getting better and better, so wouldn't so called Christians be getting better and better and more knowledgable and understanding.

    We have all witnessed this over time, and a 100 years from now that generation will be even smarter then the smartest ones today.

    Maybe the Watchtower is a little worried.

    So, any explanations on how they came up with 1935 ???

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Hi RDW

    Does the Watchtower still firmly believe this ???

    Yep.

    *** w01 5/15 p. 15 ‘Behold! The Great Crowd!’ *** Prior to 1935, an increasing number of those who responded to the Bible’s message and showed zeal in preaching the good news manifested an interest in living forever on the Paradise earth. They had no desire to go to heaven, for God had not given them the hope of heavenly life. Their identifying themselves with the great crowd of other sheep indicated that by 1935 the calling of the 144,000 anointed Christians was virtually complete.—Revelation 7:4.

    was this started by Rutherford ???
    Yep.
    if yes, why are the rest of his teachings faded away, especially Beth sarim and Abraham's return.

    Because those others teachings (re:1925, about which you will find much info here and on other sites...use "Beth-Sarim" in a search) proved false...the WTS has no problem with "fading out" predictions that proved untrue.

    So, any explanations on how they came up with 1935 ???
    I'll offer one: Ruthy was hard-pressed to achieve his plan of Brooklyn control over the "companies" (as they were then called) so long as a bunch of anointed brothers and sisters (ostensibly with just as much authority as he had in the say-so of directing the org) were running around. Step #1: reduce the number of such "voices" (achieved in 1935). Step #2: reduce the influence of those voices that were left (achieved in 1944). If you want further detail, I'll be glad to provide. Craig
  • run dont walk
    run dont walk

    Yes I would ONACRUSE and THANK YOU ! , a JW asked me about this, I wanted a proper answer.

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    1935 is VERY INTERESTING doctrine but it proves that Jehovah's witnesses, indirectly, must be the "temple organization" prophesied in the Bible, the same organization used by God even though from the very beginning infested with wheat and weeds and ultimately producing the "evil slave" in it's leader.

    But that there would be a two-class system in this organization and what is means relates to the prophetic parable of the Workers in the Vineyard. Basically, the work was to occur for 11 hours beginning at the time of the last generation leading up to Christ. Revelation says a half hour is 3.5 years so 1 hour is 7 years. Thus 11 hours is 77 years. Thus the 11 hours of work would be 77 years from 1914 to 1991.

    But the critical reference to 1935 is the fact that only the first-hour workers KNEW IN ADVANCE that they would receive a "penny" for a day's work. The other workers were told they would get "whatever is fair". So, subjectively, the third throgh the 11th-hour workers would naturally presume they would be gettin LESS. The appearance of the 3rd-hour workers, those thinking they would be getting less should have started to appear, therefore, 21 years after 1914. Add 21 and 1914 and you get---1935!!

    "Less" in the modern fulfillment would the be earthly hope compared to the heavenly hope. But note that the older ones, the prior 1935 ones are the ones associated with the heavenly class! So this fits the prophetic parable completely and chronologically as well.

    BUT...of course, the evil slave and it's false teachings is also present in this "temple organization" so the idea that the door was "closed" in 1935 is only partially correct. The "anointing" was not done any more per se after the time of the third-hour workers, but as we note in the parable, ALL the workers ended up getting the same "penny", that is, the same invitation to the heavenly class as the first-hour workers. The fact that the first-hour workers "murmured" over this simply shows they would find out this detail as a surprise. They would not understand this doctrinally until after the workers were paid.

    Sooooo...basically, if you were on your spiritual toes and paying attention, anyone could be invited into the heavenly class, including the "other sheep" only they would not find out about it until the very end, whereas the first-hour workers class would have this concept about themselves early on.

    It might help if you think of the various phases of this spiritual process. Think of the "anointing" part as a person understanding they are of the chosen heavenly class. The payment of the "penny" is the SEALING done when Christ arrives and rewards these chosen ones. Thus basically the 1st and 2nd-hour workers (first 14 years) were "anointed" ahead of time and understood this, and get sealed "last" after Christ arrives and "seals" the other workers after 1991. The other 3rd through 11th-hour workers, who appear in the work from the 14th year through the 77th year are "sealed" after Christ arrives but are never truly "anointed" before then. Or I should say, they basically get anointed and sealed at the same time. In the meantime, they think they will be living on the earth in paradise, which is also quite nice, but still considered not as grand as the heavenly hope.

    Anyway, the WTS' idea that no one but the early ones should expect going to heaven totally contradicts the Bible which shows that ALL the workers who are faithful get the penny. But it's understandable how this doctrine came about since, indeed, the pre "anointing" process did cease, as prophesied, after about 14 years into the last generation when this 77-year period of work (11 hours) began in 1914 (1914-1994=last generation).

    Thus this TWO-CLASS system phenomenon among witnesses which divides them into the heavenly and earthly classes, with the heavenly class being the early ones in, proves this is the "temple organization" of Jehovah's focus during the last days. An organization that God uses for his purpose, but whose governing body(leaders) become apostate in the end and then are abandoned.

    This is the reference in scripture where Christ has to come and SEPARATE out the sheep from the goats and the wheat from the chaff in this organization. But don't worry. This organization does produce a "little flock" but Christ has "other sheep" not of this fold, that is, other spiritual ones he is gathering in other organizations besides the witnesses. The witness organization should have produced more heavenly ones, but because of the corrupt governing body who becomes the "evil slave", including many false doctrines including not understanding the Vineyard Worker's parable, many miss out on this heavenly calling that should have begun to be "heard" by the "great crowd" sometime after 1991, when their work in the vineyard was completed.

    Canon

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    RDW, I'm working on providing you with some original source documentation about organizational developments under the Rutherford regime. It's gonna take me a little time, so please don't hesitate to prod me. I'll provide direct quotes from WTS lit, so any JW you talk with can (if they're sincerely concerned) go back and check the source.

    Canon, if I may offer a comment: Chronological calculations and spiritualized interpretations of Biblical "prophecy" are irrelevant when it comes to evaluating the development of WTS doctrine in the actual historical context. Since 1916 Rutherford had been on an overt mission to gain absolute control over the "companies," and imo to suggest that this was in any way whatsoever a "spiritual process" serves only to imply that his not-so-hidden agenda had value. The fact that some few managed to survive his vindictive and oppressive policies speaks only to their own courage and capability (I'd even say luck) to escape his clutches.

    Craig

  • run dont walk
    run dont walk

    thanks onacruse, very much APPRECIATED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Hey Ona!

    Im a bit light on in the 1935 thru 1944 department myself. Ive always wanted to read those 1938 "Theocracy" magazines. You got those? Id be real interested in a look see if you do have. I dont mind paying if you could send me copies or a disc. Let me know will ya?

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    RDW, you're very welcome. It so happens that I'm working on a project (might end up being a book) about this subject, so your inquiry dovetails very nicely.

    RF, do you have the RAI CDs that Randy has available on his site? They include all the 30s and 40s Watchtowers, and another CD called "Rutherford's Rainbow"(LOL) (all the books that were written during his regime; the latest version has added 3 new titles, of fairly rare books).

    Also, as part of my research, I'm going through the "publications" (man, that's a hard word to say now ) page-by-page, starting with 1930. I've just completed the 1930 Watchtowers, and have developed a proof-read MS Word file for that year. Am now about 1/3 of the way through Light #1. Many of the .pdf copies of the 30s lit are unreadable by OCR software (and hence, a "find" search misses a lot of stuff), since the originals were in many cases rather deteriorated. I would be glad to e-mail you, or anybody else too, a copy of what I have so far. I'm going to do the same with the 40s (they're in much better condition, so should not be so much work...whew!). I'll be including the books that I can now access thanks to that WT Bookshelf CD that Eman posted about My addy is [email protected]

    Craig

  • JCanon
    JCanon
    Canon, if I may offer a comment: Chronological calculations and spiritualized interpretations of Biblical "prophecy" are irrelevant when it comes to evaluating the development of WTS doctrine in the actual historical context. Since 1916 Rutherford had been on an overt mission to gain absolute control over the "companies," and imo to suggest that this was in any way whatsoever a "spiritual process" serves only to imply that his not-so-hidden agenda had value. The fact that some few managed to survive his vindictive and oppressive policies speaks only to their own courage and capability (I'd even say luck) to escape his clutches.

    Craig

    I tend to disagree with you specifically but not generally. It's a specific but complex application for JWs to be the temple organization prophesied in the Bible. But when you say JWs' are "God's chosen people" or the "temple organization" automatically one presumes they were supposed to be righteous, when in fact, the Bible early on says they would be corrupted by weeds. The parable of the wheat and weeds says the organization, early on, was planted with wheat but then the Devil came in and planted weeds. When both began to appear, that is, when the organization was just beginning to grow the weeds were already there. If God separated the wheat from the weeds at this early stage the fear was that some of the precious wheat would be lost. So instead God allowed the wheat and weeds to grow together until harvestime when it was easier to separate the two.

    In this parable, Russell and Rutherford and their schemes would be the "weed" influence in the organization, eventually turning the GB into the "evil slave".

    Still, this organization would be the one granted special knowledge and responsibilities for spreading the good news and warning about the second coming, though everything they taught would not be accurate. Point being, you can't casually make the application, it has to be specific; the temple organization, like the natural Jews, ends up apostate. Just because the Jews were/have been "God's chosen people" doesn't mean they did everything right, in fact, they often did just the opposite. Same with the Christian aspect of God's chosen people--the leaders become apostate even from the beginning (i.e. Russell and Rutherford).

    My point being, the Bible does talk about all these things specifically, but you must apply them correctly. You can't apply the good part of the prophecy to the entire organization which is partly bad (weeds) which is what you have done. So it does work out Biblically and chronologically when you get the specifics right.

    Thanks for your comment.

    Canon

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Ona. I just had a look at freeminds. I reckon "Rutherfords rainbow" and the 1930s WTs might be a good buy, do you know if they are able to be cut and paste so as to quote from them? Ive got a 1920s CD here but the format doesnt allow cut and paste.

    Later dude.

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