Removing scriptures and numbering

by carla 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • carla

    Recently there was a thread

    and Kairos mentioned the following-

    I am baffled that John 8:1-12 was removed from their bible.

    It's a verse that makes judging and shunning impossible if you claim to be Christian."

    My question is how to they continue to number the chapters? If they knock on a door the householder will in all likelihood have a Bible that does have John 8 1-12. Do they just skip it and keep the rest of the numbers/chapters the same? how does this work?

  • slimboyfat

    Since JWs only tend to quote isolated verses and rarely whole chapters, let alone longer extracts, I don’t see that the situation is likely to arise often that they need to skip over these verses or explain the omission.

    Someone may draw attention to it if they are clued up about the issue, in which case they may be an ex-JW or an Evangelical of the King James only variety. In which case they may have argued over something else other than this anyway.

    It’s worth pointing about that it’s probably easier to spot that the verses are missing in an old fashioned print copy of the Bible over digital versions. Just one more way in which the turn to digital affects how JWs use and interact with texts.

  • carla

    Thanks Slim! Back when me & my jw would discuss things he would never read a whole chapter (or even the one before & after) about a scripture for context. Used to drive me crazy. He couldn't resist skipping all around, "what about this scripture here and there...." how he connected the dots so often make absolutely no sense at all.

  • Moster

    They simply removed verses 1-11 and left the chapter in place

  • intrigue169

    that was Wescott and Horde that removed them not watchtower I believe. those were the catholic manuscripts used for NWT . I might be wrong I was comparing a few different bibles online that had the same exact verses removed

  • venus

    Unfortunately, they removed the best part of the scriptures.

    How wise it would be if they had removed portions which are obviously uninspired such as:

    1) Joshua stopping the sun and the moon.

    2) Jesus and Satan going to the top of the mountain in the belief that they could see from there all kingdoms of the earth.

    3) Killing of 70,000 people because David took a census.

    4) Abraham being told to sacrifice his only son Issac and saying Ok without any reasoning which he did in the case of the likelihood of the death of wicked people of Sodom and Gomorrah

    5) Uzziah being given instant death sentence for helping theocracy………..etc

  • careful


    You ask a good question. There are only a handful of modern (non-KJV) translations that a householder would likely have. Among these are the TNIV (Today's NIV, revised in 2005) and the NRSV (1989). Both note that these verses, John 7:53 to 8:11, are not the product of the original gospel writer. The former sets the text off a bit with an introductory note and in different font and smaller type:

    The latter uses double brackets and a note:

    The revised NWT is not the first to simply "jump verses," or just not print the story at all. The Twentieth Century NT, J. B. Rotherham, Charles B. Williams, and Goodspeed's translation do as well. Here's the last mentioned:

    Most other translations just leave verses out when a smaller block of text is involved, as for example, at Matt 23:14, Luke 17:36, Acts 8:37.

    In all these cases the issue is the same. The chapters and verse numbers were added late in the Bible's history, in the late medieval period. By that time the Greek text had reached its highest point of corruption with the most additions and alterations. The KJV was based on such a Greek text. As time has passed since 1611, knowledge of what was likely the original text has improved and that has led to recognizing several passages as not original. The small examples immediately above as well as the large examples in John 8 and the end of Mark are all cases in point.

    Therefore, it's better not to say that these verse are "removed" or "missing" but that they never belonged in the first place.

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