WTBS God's faithful slave?

by imallgrowedup 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    I have been doing "scriptural battle" with my mother and step-father who have been practicing Witnesses for nearly 40 years (I did not grow up in their household), and I need an answer to a question I have not been able to find on every JW website I have been scouring. Perhaps someone out there can enlighten me!(?)

    I am trying to understand where the WTBS got the idea that they are "Jehovah's Faithful and Discreet Slave"? How do they convince "believers" that they are "ordained" from God to teach the rank and file? What scriptural evidence do they give to prove that JW's are supposed to go through an organization for biblical interpretation, and pledge their loyalty to it, to boot? It just doesn't make sense to me. What is it that is being taught to JW's to make them believe the WTBS is "God's visible organization"?

  • DJ
    DJ

    Welcome imallgrowedup...I love your name.lol

    Wow....you asked a mouthful!!

    I am trying to understand where the WTBS got the idea that they are "Jehovah's Faithful and Discreet Slave"? How do they convince "believers" that they are "ordained" from God to teach the rank and file? What scriptural evidence do they give to prove that JW's are supposed to go through an organization for biblical interpretation, and pledge their loyalty to it, to boot? It just doesn't make sense to me. What is it that is being taught to JW's to make them believe the WTBS is "God's visible organization"?
    They got the idea about the faithful and discreet slave from the bible (Matt.) The only problem is that they aren't. No organization is. How do they convince?..with fear tactics and mind control and an altered bible. Evidence that for an org? None really except they point out in the OT where it says "You are my witnesses" instead of being witnesses for Christ they think that Jehovah needs one. It shouldn't make sense to you. As far as God's visible org....mind control, mind control a cult in other words. They have false prophecies up to their earlobes and doctrinal hypocrisy to no end. I sympathize with you, I was raised as a jw and my parents and siblings are in it still. I left when i was in my mid 30's. It is a manipulative cult and your parents are victims. the best thing to do is to offer your love to them and do research for yourself. It has been my experience that scripture battling just backfires because they see you as the devil trying to persecute them. If you haven't already, i would strongly urge you to read "Crisis Of Conscience" by Ray Franz. he was a Governing Body member who left the jw's because he saw the hypocrisy too. It will give you insight into the inner workings of the watchtower. Peace to you, dj
  • greven
    greven

    To help you a little further;

    Matthew 24

    45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

    Note that this was a question asked by Jesus in a rhetorical way. He provides an illustration involving slaves and a master that leaves. Their behaviour during his absence is used to determine if they have been faithfull or not. Now the society has twisted this passage and turned it into a prophesy (which it clearly is not, read the entire chapter and simular illustrations involving slaves and a master). They claim that Jesus inspected the entire range of christian groups in 1918-19 and choose them to be the faithfull and wise servant. They also claim that this means they are God's communication channel, effectively using this as a tool to demand submission. Their claimed authority even ranks highter than that of the bible!!!!

    The following quotes will help you prove this:

    *** w57 6/15 370 Overseers of Jehovah's People ***Yes, particularly since 1919 has it been true that he has appointed the collective body of the anointed remnant over all the visible interests of the Kingdom. The "slave" then became responsible not only for ministering to the needs of the anointed body members but also for taking on the responsibility of preaching the good news of the established Kingdom to people of all nations. (Matt. 24:14) Such is true not by their determination of it, but because God himself has so directed. "God has set the members in the body, each one of them, just as he pleased," is the way it is pictured in 1 Corinthians 12:18 (NW). It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision.

    *** w57 5/1 281 Trust Your Proved, Faithful Brothers ***The rich blessing that has been poured out upon the visible organization is evidence that the governing body and those who represent it are deserving of our full support and trust. This we can demonstrate only by accepting every provision as coming from the Lord through the "faithful and discreet slave".

    *** w76 2/15 124 You Must Be Holy Because Jehovah Is Holy ***Will we hesitate in applying counsel, perhaps pondering in our mind as to what we want to do about it? If that would be the case, wouldn’t we really be asking ourselves the question, ‘Do we really want the rulership of God?’ Would not a failure to respond to direction from God through his organization really indicate a rejection of divine rulership?

    *** w59 5/1 269 Attain Completeness in the New World Society ***To hold to the headship of Christ, it is therefore necessary to obey the organization that he is personally directing. Doing what the organization says is to do what he says. Resisting the organization is to resist him.

    *** w52 2/1 79-80 Jehovah's Theocratic Organization Today ***Then let us not try to take over the slave’s duties. We should eat and digest and assimilate what is set before us, without shying away from parts of the food because it may not suit the fancy of our mental taste. The truths we are to publish are the ones provided through the discreet-slave organization, not some personal opinions contrary to what the slave has provided as timely food. Jehovah and Christ direct and correct the slave as needed, not we as individuals. If we do not see a point at first we should keep trying to grasp it, rather than opposing and rejecting it and presumptuously taking the position that we are more likely to be right than the discreet slave. We should meekly go along with the Lord’s theocratic organization and wait for further clarification, rather than balk at the first mention of a thought unpalatable to us and proceed to quibble and mouth our criticisms and opinions as though they were worth more than the slave’s provision of spiritual food. Theocratic ones will appreciate the Lord’s visible organization and not be so foolish as to pit against Jehovah’s channel their own human reasoning and sentiment and personal feelings.

    *** w59 5/1 269 Attain Completeness in the New World Society ***

    One obstacle to obedience and submission is the tendency in imperfect humans to pass judgment on the fitness or otherwise of the instructions that come down to them. Instead of accepting these as from Christ through the organization, they debate within themselves, or with others, what they shall do.

    *** w57 5/1 281 Trust Your Proved, Faithful Brothers *** Think for a moment. Consider what happened to Saul for disobedience. His neglect in discharging his theocratic assignment to vindicate Jehovah’s word and name brought him a just sentence at the hands of Jehovah’s representative, Samuel. (1 Sam. 15:1-3, 11, 22, 23) Ignoring counsel from headquarters or from the servants in the local congregation is negligence and a sign of disrespect for theocratic authorities. We may take the position that some instructions do not apply to us and may make some mental reservations as to the advisability of carrying them out, even though we might recognize that the suggestions embody sound Scriptural principles. In this way we give only partial support to the organization and the commission to preach "this good news of the kingdom." We may assume that these instructions are only incidentals, that the important thing is ‘bringing the ark of Jehovah up into Jerusalem.’ David learned to his sorrow (and to Uzza’s death) that singing praise to Jehovah and good intentions are not enough to bring the full reward of Jehovah’s blessing. True worship must be performed according to the ordinance of Jehovah, and what might seem like minor details are important if they issue through the channel of God’s organization. — 1 Chron. 13:6-10; 15:11-15.

    *** w60 7/15 439 Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" ***The present stature of the New World society of Jehovah’s witnesses, numbering nearly a million ministers in 175 lands, gives eloquent testimony that it is not the product of human ingenuity. Rather, it is the product of holy spirit operating theocratically through a tested channel, influencing the lives of dedicated men and women in all walks of life.—Zech. 4:6.

    *** w64 6/15 365 Jehovah, the God of Progressive Revelation ***
    The holy spirit of Jehovah is working mightily today!
    How thankful we should be for the provision God has made of this slave class, the modern spiritual remnant, as they faithfully dispense the revealed truths of Jehovah!

    *** w57 5/1 274 Show Respect for Jehovah's Organization ***The world is full of Bibles, which Book contains the commandments of God. Why, then, do the people not know which way to go? Because they do not also have the teaching or law of the mother, which is light. Jehovah God has provided his holy written Word for all mankind and it contains all the information that is needed for men in taking a course leading to life. But God has not arranged for that Word to speak independently or to shine forth life-giving truths by itself. His Word says: "Light is sown for the righteous." (Ps. 97:11) It is through his organization that God provides this light that the proverb says is the teaching or law of the mother. If we are to walk in the light of truth we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our mother.

    *** w67 10/1 587 Finding Freedom with Jehovah's Visible Organization ***Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind.

    Note this too:

    *** w61 9/1 525 Hold Your Position ***If one renders obedient service to someone or some organization, whether willingly or under compulsion, looking up to such as possessing a position of superior rulership and great authority, then that one can Scripturally be said to be a worshiper.

    The doctrine of the slave is the most profound and important doctrine. on it the entire basis of authority is build.

    I hope this helps you in you queste. Want to know more? Just ask.

    Greven

  • Hamas
    Hamas

    Welcome to the board...

    May you find true peace with us.

    Maybe this will help you answer some questions about the Faithful Slave:

    http://www.escapethewatchtower.com/Is_Watchtower_truth.htm

  • r51785
    r51785

    I don't think there really is any evidence, biblical or otherwise, that back in 1919 Jehovah chose a printing company run by a liquor loving lawyer as his personal representatives on earth.

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    If you can get ahold of a copy of In Search of Christian Freedom by Raymond Franz, it has an excellent analysis of the Faithful Slave doctrine.

  • Francois
    Francois

    I thought you were talking about WTBS, Superstation in Atlanta. You mean WTBTS, right? You left out the T for Tract in WTBS. Confusing.

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Matthew Chapter 24

    45: Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
    46: Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
    47: Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
    48: But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
    49: And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
    50: The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
    51: And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    • Matthew 24:45 is a parable. Should doctrines of authority be built upon parables?
    • The servant parable uses personal pronouns "his", "he", etc. Personal pronouns refer to individuals not classes.
    • All servant parables such as Matthew 25:14-30 refer to individuals why should Matthew 24:45 refer to a "class"
    • The NWT uses the word "class" in some places in the NT. Why doesn't the New Testament use the word "class" in matthew 24:45?

    While we are on the subject of the FDS. A key Watchtower doctrine is that Jesus found and appointed a Faithful and Discreet Slave Class in the year 1919.

    A simple way to disprove the 1914, 1919 FDS doctrine is to simply show the 1919 Topical Index to the Watchtower Reprints. Under the "That" heading

    "That Servant: An Individual, not a class"

    Since the index summarizes the WT teachings up to July 1919 there was no FDS class for Jesus to appoint! I have a copy of the old index page which is probably not available in most Kingdom Hall libraries if you like I could mail it to you. I have never been a JW so I am not apostate.

    The standard reply to such remarks is that there has been numerous helpings of New Light since 1919! If your points are not the latest WBTS thinking they are not considered as valid. This is how I would respond to the "new light" argument.

    "Yes, Mr. Witness I know that the FDS teaching was changed in February 1927 to the current one that the FDS is a "class." However this is not the issue that concerns me. The main thing that concerns me is that the Watchtower claims that there was a slave class in the year 1919 when there wasn't one. In oder for Watchtower history to be correct Jesus had to appoint a slave class in the year 1919. The historical facts show that one did not exist, hense the Watchtower has lied about their history."

    Here is another way to respond to the "new light" argument.

    "Mr. Witness the Watchtower claims that the new light is progressive, right? . In fact the Watchtower first taught that the FDS was a "class", then the Watchtower claimed to have new understanding or new light that the FDS was an "individual not a class." So the idea that the FDS is"not a class" was the "new light". Then later the Watchtower returned to the "old light" and once again taught that the FDS was a "class."

    Summary of Watchtower FDS teaching

    • 1879 to 1896 "A class"
    • 1896 to 1927 "An individual, not a class"
    • 1927 to pres "A class"

    Much of the above comes from the book "Who is the Faithful and Wise Servant" by Duane Magnai, available from Witness Inc. http://www.witnessinc.com

  • seedy3
    seedy3

    Up until about the late 1920's to early 1930's there was no FDS "Class" , the Faithful slave was considered to be Pastor Russell, he was the only one not a group. When Da Judge made his hostile take over of the WTS, that was changed he made the doctrine switch and made the WTS his to run as he felt and the FDS became a "Class" of people rather then one person. Up until his passing away (or was it passing out) he pretty much ran everything with Freddy as his bible scholar and chief doctrine setter. The Governing body had little power until the Judge passed away, although there had been a GB set up by Pastor Russell.

    Not too sure of this accuracy, because I was taking this from memory, but I do remember there is a website that goes through the development of the WTBTS and how the GB ended up coming to power. I'll see if I can find it and post it here.

    Seedy

  • greven
    greven

    Nice points, Hooberus!

    Greven

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