All right -- What does God need 144,000 "rulers" for, anyway?

by logansrun 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  logansrun

  One of the great philosophical conumdrums amongst the vast number of philosophical conumdrums of the Watchtower Society is this: why would Almighty God (or Jesus Christ) need once earthly, now spiritual "co-rulers" for anyway?

  Think about it. God is not lacking in anything (supposedly). Now, anything means anything, right? Well, evidently the WT Society doesn't seem to think so! From my own resevoir of WT indoctrination I can remember the party answer: God has selected 144,000 faithful men and women to rule with his Son for 1,000 years. And they're going to make such great rulers! Why, they were once human beings so they know all the weaknesses that go along with the human condition. They will be able to sympathize with us (that is the exact word they have used) and guide us along in the new world. And there it is!

  But, we may ask: shouldn't God be able to already do that? Certainly, He who can read our minds and hearts, created us and can see into the future at will should be able to sympathize with us and understand what it is like to be human (need I remind you we are created in His image?) What need then for a bunch of humans transformed into supernatural beings to do so? God can already do that -- and He should be damn better at it or else He wouldn't be God!

  Of course, the same question could be asked why God would have his Son rule over man. For the trinitarian this presents no problems since the Son is already the same as God.

  So, from a purely logical point of view, the raising of 144,000 men and women to be kings and priests would seem to be utterly superflous. IT JUST DOESN'T ADD UP.

  Bradley
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  teenyuck

  Hmmm....'cause he's a lazy ass and wants to sit watching his big screen TV.
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  Jessica Rabbit

  I can't believe I am reading this. I had this exact thought about a week ago. To add to that, why would God have a chosen people? Wasn't the gospel supposedly only for the Jews in the very beginning? Aren't we all equal in sin? Why would he pick them out of the entire population? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these 144,000 supposed to be literal Jews? It is hard to understand why a God of love who is so BIG would categorize any certain group of imperfect people and then later on down the road offer it to the Gentiles as well.

  Sorry to get off track there Bradley.
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  logansrun

  traci,

  Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these 144,000 supposed to be literal Jews? It is hard to understand why a God of love who is so BIG would categorize any certain group of imperfect people and then later on down the road offer it to the Gentiles as well.

  According to the WTBTS, the 144,000 are both Jews and Gentiles who are hand-picked by God Himself to serve with his Son as co-rulers (something He could have done himself, but for no good reason decides to let them have a shot at it). True, in the book of Revelation 12 tribes of Israel are listed with 12,000 people each "sealed" to form 144,000. But, the Society states that their being of these tribes is figurative. Yet they say the total number itself is literal. Go figure.

  But, you do raise an interesting point, one that is related to the topic I started. Supposedly God was going to allow the entire Jewish nation to become these king/priests. Obviously, there would be many more Jews around than just 144,000. So, would he just have chosen the "best of the best?" Beats me.

  Whenever the JWs or any other religious group start to literalize the Bible and make it fit into a tightly woven logical paradigm they are doomed to failure. An entirely consistent theology is impossible, due to the inconsistency of the source itself -- the Bible.

  Bradley
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  Jessica Rabbit

  Thanks for the update on WTBS. I love knowing I have some of the same thoughts as other members of the forum. You are right, they only take the number literally but nothing else.
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  robhic

  Upon reading Rev 14:4 we also see that not only are the 144,000 to be Jewish, but men only. The 144K are to be "not defiled with women" so they are unmarried, Jewish virgins. If it is to be taken literally it is kinda limiting, if I do say so myself...

  And I agree with your statement. After the "Big A" is over and only the (supposed) righteous are left, why would any rulers of any kind be needed? Wouldn't these people be trustworthy to run things themselves? We don't need no steenking rulers!

  Robert
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  Francois

  How odd of God
  To choose the Jews.

  And y'know what else? That sentence that blabbers on about the 144k? The WTBTS has part of that sentence as literal, part as symbolic, another part as literal again, bouncing back and forth between literal and symbolic like a ping pong ball making sure that no where in that sentence does it trip over its own so-called theology. It's grand to watch them in action. Gotta hand it to them, they're as sleazy and slippery as James Carville or any of them super spin doctors that Clinton had.
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  Brummie

  Logan your posts are too interesting.

  Anyhows, the Watchtower teaches that God is not omnipresent. Infact they scorn such a thought. They also do not believe God is all knowing, according to their theology his knowledge grows daily, in other words, he chooses to be ignorant until something smacks him in the eyes and he has to take note.

  When one considers their "god theology" we find that he is not very different to anyone of the 144000, he lives somewhere, he relies on the angels for information, I guess they transmit the thoughts into his head, sounds just like the others huh, the Watchtower God needs the 144000, believe me.

  It doesnt hold out much hope for getting things right in the future does it? Look at the mess he and the 144000 have made so far, especially when it comes to prophecy.

  my 1pence worth

  Brummie
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  Satanus

  Well, that's the loopey ideas you get when priests (ok, john was the son of a priest. I guess he just couldn't let go of the power drug) w grandiose fantasies cobble together a heaven.

  SS
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  DannyBear

  Logun,

  Your posts are thought provoking and refreshing.

  Somehow I think you have already answered the question for yourself.

  As for me once I decided that the any attempt at interpreting the bible, is an exercise in futility, then it is very easy to conclude that anyone who say's they know what it means....is totaly deluded.

  Trying to ascribe exact meaning to John's revelation, is sophistry in every sense of the word.

  None of the seer's of the Wtbs have ever gotten any of it right......guess what they never will.

  Danny