How do JWs know that millions who were martyred as Christians before the 20th century did not have the heavenly hope?

by Vanderhoven7 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vanderhoven7

    As I understand it, Jehovah’s Witnesses believe less than 145,000 faithful Christians existed prior to the twentieth century. The other sheep Christians did not start forming until after 1914. That means Jehovah’s Witnesses view millions martyred for their faith in Christ prior to the 20th century as merely professed Christians.

    The question is…how do Witnesses know that those millions who perished for their faith in Christ were not Christians at all?

  • Rattigan350

    What do you mean How did we know that millions didn't have the heavenly hope?

    We don't know who did and who didn't.

    If they had faith in Christ, they were Christians.

    Were they anointed by the holy spirit?

    No one knows. But just being a Christian or dying for one's faith is not a guaranteed that one gets anointed with holy spirit.

  • waton

    easy. since the writing of Revelation, or before, Christians' hoped for the coming of the Lord, in their generation.

    a). these martyrs, although qualifying for the heavens, following Re,20:3, will not make it the wt way though, because they did not grasp and embrace the overlapping groups generation doctrine. for 2000 years, that's what I call an overlap.

    b) they believed, like Peter the first, and were awaiting an new Heavens and Earth.

  • ozziepost
    how do Witnesses know that those millions who perished for their faith in Christ were not Christians at all?

    If I can recall ( it seems so long ago) this was one of those things we/(they) close not to think about too much. Y’now those lines of thought that got terminated by “it’s in Jehovah’s hands”,

    Looking back, there were so many of those unexplained thoughts.

    Part of my own awakening was to visit the catacombs in Rome and see at first hand the evidence of so many early christian martyrs and to realise that it didn’t look realistic to claim there were less than 144,000 in the centuries before 1914.

    For those R&F in these current times I find it hard to grasp how they can possibly accept an increasing number of the remnant (memorial partakers).

    Cognitive dissonance indeed !

  • waton
    so many early christian martyrs

    ozpo The strange thing about wt believers is, that they only need to partake to pass on to heaven, dying in bed shot up with morphine.

    No axing required for the heavenly wt lot.

  • smiddy3

    They don`t know, and that`s the truth ,they are arrogant, Know it all`s who never get anything right ,just look back at their history to understand that fact.

  • Vanderhoven7


    ((What do you mean How did we know that millions didn't have the heavenly hope?))
    Good question.

    I'll answer....

    According to Watchtower:

    1. What is the maximum number of Christians that have the heavenly hope?......... 144,000

    2. How many non-anointed Christians were around before the twentieth century? ......Zero

    3. What is the maximum number of anointed plus non-anointed Christians that could have existed prior to the twentieth century? .......less than 144,000 since some of the 144,000 are still with us today.

    4. What does Watchtower identify those millions martyred for their faith in Christ prior to the twentieth century, as? ..... non-Christians

    So, How do Jehovah's Witnesses know that millions who died for their faith in Christ prior to 1914 were professed but not real Christians?.....You tell me

  • slimboyfat

    Are you sure that “millions” were martyred before the 20th century? Who counts as a martyr in this context and how are you counting them.

    Scholar Candida Moss, for example, has argued that few early Christian’s were actually martyred and her argument has generally been well received.

    Current JW teaching, as I understand it, is that 1935 is no longer viewed as any kind of watershed, and both anointed and other sheep could have been selected at any time.

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    lets get it right.

    the 144,000 is literal--right ?

    ---12, 000 from each of the 12 tribes of israel--symbolic--right?

    -----virgin men--symbolic--right ?

    wouldnt it make life so much simpler if the 144,000- were symbolic too ?

  • Linda14

    That teaching obviously doesn't make any sense. This is one of the many teachings they will one day discard.

    One of the major problem WT has is this 1914 nonsense. There are lots of doctrine pinned to that date. Until they remove that nonsense called 1914, they won't breath a fresh air.

    Imagine, for over one thousand years now, God has not been able to get 144000 persons, but in relatively short time, the number of great crowd has numbered into the millions. Yet the standard of righteousness is still the same. Even the number that were available during the first century alone would probably get close to that 144000.

    The 144000 likely refers to all true christians that would be saved during Armageddon. It is a symbol for all true christians during that time.

    With time, the unreasonableness of that doctrine would gain greater vote among the GB members and they will change it. Don't be surprised that not all GB members or even those in HQ believe that teaching. JWs encourage hypocrisy, and love for organization more than love for bible truth. It's a sad reality.

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